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Post by MissGriss on May 14, 2020 6:48:23 GMT
I was really touched by What Ben did for Sarah. I'm taking it at face value. I think he really did care about her, and he really heard what she said at tribal council. He probably knew that he couldn't win and that she needed a big move like that to have a chance, so he gave her permission to do it. I thought it was sweet and loyal in a weird kind of way. I don't know why Natalie didn't have Michelle go up against Tony for the fire challenge, though. Michelle was clearly the boss of the three when it came to fires, and she could have taken Tony out. He really did need to be gone for her to win. Is Natalie good at building fires? I don't think I saw her season. Why did Rob think she should have gone up against Tony? I didn't quite understand that. Was her winning a sure thing if she did? I'm happy with Tony's win. I thought he dominated the game, but I also think the other two finalists deserved to be there. Natalie sure made all of us who were rooting for her sweat by blowing all of her advantages before winning to get back in the game.
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Post by FannyMare on May 14, 2020 11:39:21 GMT
I was really touched by What Ben did for Sarah. I'm taking it at face value. I think he really did care about her, and he really heard what she said at tribal council. He probably knew that he couldn't win and that she needed a big move like that to have a chance, so he gave her permission to do it. I thought it was sweet and loyal in a weird kind of way. I don't know why Natalie didn't have Michelle go up against Tony for the fire challenge, though. Michelle was clearly the boss of the three when it came to fires, and she could have taken Tony out. He really did need to be gone for her to win. Is Natalie good at building fires? I don't think I saw her season. Why did Rob think she should have gone up against Tony? I didn't quite understand that. Was her winning a sure thing if she did? I'm happy with Tony's win. I thought he dominated the game, but I also think the other two finalists deserved to be there. Natalie sure made all of us who were rooting for her sweat by blowing all of her advantages before winning to get back in the game. Those advantages, very nearly didn't help. I was on the edge of my seat and not neccesarily cheering for her. I'm not sure about Ben, he didn't want to vote off Denise he told Sarah it was okay to write his name down. He sort of gave up, and decided he didn't want to win. I think if Natalie had been able to get rid of Tony, she would of won. I don't think Natalie's social game wasn't that good, and that's a big part of this game.
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Post by polarpi on May 14, 2020 12:49:28 GMT
Why did Rob think she should have gone up against Tony? I didn't quite understand that. Was her winning a sure thing if she did? I wonder, if it Rob’s mind, he was considering what Chris did when he came back from the edge, won the final immunity, then gave it to another person to compete in the fire making challenge to “prove” his worthiness - I think that’s part of the reason he won his season having come back from the Edge. Perhaps Rob felt that Natalie needed to do the same thing to prove that she was worthy of coming back into the game after surviving on the Edge basically the entire season in order for her win to be worthy - or again, because they had talked about how Tony basically was paying the best game, she didn’t do anything to ensure he went out.
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sirmalcoth
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"Formerly Known As MReid"
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Post by sirmalcoth on May 14, 2020 13:48:31 GMT
Winners at War wasnt my favorite season. But Tony Vlachos in my opinion is the greatest player of all time. I'm sad that the reunion show couldnt be live in LA so that fans and family could really celebrate like we usually do.
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Post by brycola on May 14, 2020 14:09:34 GMT
I enjoyed the season because I'm a Survivor fan. BUT...this season will be pretty low on my ranking of seasons. I just didn't like hardly any of these people...maybe 2 or 3. Some of my LEAST favorite players were on this season...Tyson, Tony, Parvati, Ben, Natalie...YUCK! They should have added Coach and Russell and made this season COMPLETELY unwatchable. I sure hope this is the last time Tony is on my TV! Enough with previous players. I'm ready for a season of all new people.
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Post by FannyMare on May 14, 2020 14:33:00 GMT
Winners at War wasnt my favorite season. But Tony Vlachos in my opinion is the greatest player of all time. I'm sad that the reunion show couldnt be live in LA so that fans and family could really celebrate like we usually do. Yes, I agree. It wasn't our favorite season but Tony is a great player I'm not sure when the guy ever slept, and his joy as well as his sadness, was pure and relatable
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Post by sunnydayz on May 14, 2020 14:44:13 GMT
Not my favorite season either, but Tony is an amazing player. He annoyed the heck out of me at the beginning of the season, but by the end I was all-out rooting for him. So happy for him. And I love the relationship between he and Sarah.
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tilden
FORT Regular
Posts: 220
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Post by tilden on May 14, 2020 16:26:34 GMT
It's occurred to me that for all the model-type people Survivor likes to cast, the only two who have now won it twice don't fit into that category--and I don't mean that as a negative comment regarding Tony and Sandra because 98.8% of the people in the world don't fit into that category. I'm happy the only two people who've won twice look more like somebody I might just run into at the post office or the grocery store as opposed to someone I'd only ever see air-brushed on the pages of a magazine.
Also, I felt sorry for Sophie sitting there in the rain. Well, I felt sorry for all of them, but particularly for her because they'd mentioned she'd been too sick to attend the fire-building episode. She looked like she felt just so miserable, and I don't think it was because she was angry that those three made the finals and she didn't.
Finally, I think out of those three, Tony did probably have the best game in terms of all three categories and deserved to win, and I was touched by his tears when he had to send Sarah out of the game, and I thought she was absolutely honest about not holding it against him and that if someone had to send her out of the game, she was glad it was him.
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Post by allysense on May 14, 2020 19:40:56 GMT
I thought Tony learned his lesson from Game Changers(finished 19th place ~ although made him less of a threat for Winners) and not played crazy in the beginning, but instead lay low in the earlier stages game and then bring it later on. Also, I love it when players bring new ideas to the game like Tony's spy nest!
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Post by indy1945 on May 14, 2020 21:37:53 GMT
I loved Tony's spy nest and can't believe that no one ever saw him up there. He must have been really high up and very well concealed. I was happy with this win. I just saw a You Tube of all the past 35 winners and was surprised that a lot of them I didn't remember and I think I've watched all of the series. I guess at lot of them didn't make any impression on me. Now it's on to Amazing Race.
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Post by FireWoman on May 14, 2020 21:50:47 GMT
I was really touched by What Ben did for Sarah. I'm taking it at face value. I think he really did care about her, and he really heard what she said at tribal council. He probably knew that he couldn't win and that she needed a big move like that to have a chance, so he gave her permission to do it. I thought it was sweet and loyal in a weird kind of way. I don't know why Natalie didn't have Michelle go up against Tony for the fire challenge, though. Michelle was clearly the boss of the three when it came to fires, and she could have taken Tony out. He really did need to be gone for her to win. Is Natalie good at building fires? I don't think I saw her season. Why did Rob think she should have gone up against Tony? I didn't quite understand that. Was her winning a sure thing if she did? I'm happy with Tony's win. I thought he dominated the game, but I also think the other two finalists deserved to be there. Natalie sure made all of us who were rooting for her sweat by blowing all of her advantages before winning to get back in the game. As someone who wasn't a huge fan of Ben, I too will say his talk with Lacina (as she would like to now be called ) was touching and I took it at face value as well. It is always nice to see player's personal growth in a game like this. Tony has shown growth as well. I have stated I'm not a fan of his as a player but as a person he is not a bad guy and I think we saw a bit more of him this season than we have in the past. As someone who has always wanted a winners only season... I am not upset he won, he was never my first choice there were just too many other players in the game from the beginning I would have LOVED to see win.
I read Natalie's EW interview and even there she came off, I don't know I don't want to say bad or entitled but that was how it left me feeling. She wasn't very gracious with the congratulations she was given with her "I'll take the congratulations, but I am the first loser. But whatever." She talked about some gawd awful conditions (rats biting their fingers and toes as they slept and her day one on EOE depression) and I wouldn't wish that on anyone so I feel for her (and all of the others) in that respect. She also talks about not having Michelle go against Tony in fire building.. and her thought process there.
As much as I do not like Boston Rob either I have to give some credit to him in what he 'dinged' her on in the last tribal. I think that Natalie's position in this season showed how much of this game is about someone who can take all three aspects of the contest (Outplay, Outlast, and Outwit) in order to win. She was lacking, painfully, in the social aspects.. and it was pointed out several times in several ways by her fellow cast mates. Even in her interview she expected, at the very least, more votes and was shocked she did not get them. Because of her place as 1st voted off, she did have a great many advantaged on EOE, or because of EOE, that helped her in the end. I wonder how well she would have fared if she was voted out at a mid point rather than 1st?? Her tokens helped her undoubtedly in the end and if she wasn't able to amass such a great number I do not think she would have been back in at the end. I think what did it for me with her and my feelings was how she interacted with Ethan during his overexertion break in the EOE log challenge asking him if he was OK came off as such an afterthought when she heard someone else ask him. She knows her personality is not for everyone, and that is fine too.. I am one of those people who feels shes not my cup of tea.. but I think that was her biggest downfall in this game. I will not deny shes a physical threat and she has always been VERY focused and determined; she is also very shrewd and that helped her as well in her return to the game. One thing I will say that the EW piece brought to light was her relationship outside the game with Tyson, that was very touching.. and went a long way to clue in why she went and gave him an idol should he have been the winner in the return challenge. Says a lot about Tyson too.. but I have always kinda liked him even when he did something to anger me lol.
I have never had an issue with someone on EOE coming back to the game as there are advantages and disadvantages to them in their position and I would have said that no matter who it was that returned... no matter who it was there would have always been a uphill battle she did make the best of her situation but in the end Tony was the one that was able to say he had all three aspects well in check. He earned his win, and I know how much police officers make.. so this is truly life changing money for his family (as it would be anyone) but he came off humble in his win and i give him props for that as well.
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Post by MissScarlet on May 15, 2020 0:34:24 GMT
I pretty much quit watching Survivor quite a few seasons ago. It was mainly the model/bartender/hottie casting that got me. That & the hook up Survivor that started around the same time. I don't watch this to see hot bodies or hookups. I'd be watching Fox TV shows if that's what I wanted. I watch for characters, gameplay, and eventually desperation & what it does to people. I watched every episode this season because some of my favorites were there, although they all ended up on EOE.
This was a bunch of game players. That's why they won in the first place. They played hard & worked hard, and knew the meaning & benefits of loyalty. No slackers here. They didn't disappoint either. I got to know some of the winners I knew nothing about, since I didn't watch their seasons. I learned to appreciate & like them too, or at least appreciate & respect them.
I wish Michelle would have gotten a vote or two. She was targeted so many times & would win immunity or turn people toward someone else. She had a target on her back so much & still made it to Final 3. That deserved a vote. I didn't warm up to Natalie either, she did work hard & win her way back & win her way to Final 3. I respected that hard work & hard play.
I went into the season knowing nothing about Tony, & it took a bit to warm up to him. But after my favs were on EOE I started to enjoy him & appreciate his hard game play. Now, as he mentioned, as Sandra is the Queen, he's now the King of Survivor.
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Post by justCoz on May 15, 2020 2:11:24 GMT
I didn't go into the season wanting Tony to win, but somewhere along the way he became my choice to win. I thought he played a great game. I think his early game was helped by them all wanting to vote off the old school players, but that doesn't negate all he did. I think he was really hoping to take Sarah with him to the final 3. What a sweet friendship he and Sarah have.
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Post by MissGriss on May 15, 2020 9:23:25 GMT
Thanks for that long post talking about Natalie, FireWoman! I agree with so much of what you said. Rob's confronting Natalie about her social game makes even more sense to me after watching the Ponderosa video for the folks who were on the Edge. (I just posted it in a new Ponderosa thread.) It's clear from that video that the folks who were there formed deep bonds with each other and let their hair down there with each other much more than they would have during the regular game, so I can see how her remaining aloof and secretive wouldn't have gone over very well with him. (Though now that I think about it, he did the same thing with that challenge where they went to the top of the hill and he grabbed three of the four tokens without admitting to it. LOL)
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Post by allornothing on May 15, 2020 19:59:00 GMT
Didn't love the season, didn't hate it but was just meh. Didn't love EOE, it went on too long. And then Nat came back too late for me to root for her over Tony, even though I liked how she played. I did LOVE the finale though. I thought the jury was great, the final 3 did great with the questions. Tony was hilarious and had great game, so I was rooting for him to win. Then when they showed it with his family, I cried and that was awesome. Maybe not my favorite season, but my favorite finale.
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Post by sunnydayz on May 16, 2020 2:03:19 GMT
The finale was good, wasn’t it?! I loved that we got more actual game time footage instead of the hour reunion nonsense. It was sooo much better that way.
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atwi80d
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April Showers and Easter!
Posts: 149
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Post by atwi80d on May 16, 2020 19:20:37 GMT
Really loved the jury there. As they came off respectful. And really not as mean spirited like they always are. One of the best seasons there.
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Post by Bearcata on May 18, 2020 0:28:38 GMT
Just finished watching the finale.
Disappointed that Natalie did not win. In regards to her having an advantage because she was the first one voted off ... Heck no. It could have been anyone else and they may or may not have done as well. 3 days alone on EOE does not mean you know all of the islands secrets. I think she is a very determined person and used that to gain advantage and influence the game. Boston Rob hid fire tokens he found, he is better at keeping secrets than Natalie so I do not blame her for being her.
It would have been a huge risk for her to attempt to do the fire challenge against Tony. It was a needless risk send in one of the minions to do it. I do agree with Sarah's earlier speech ( about 1 hour in ) that there is a gender basis regarding the actions people take and how they are perceived. If Tony had been the one who was voted off first, and returned what are the odds he would have been voted the winner.
I liked that Jeff Probst asked teenagers to apply for next season. That would be interesting.
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Post by MissGriss on May 18, 2020 6:04:27 GMT
Just finished watching the finale. Disappointed that Natalie did not win. In regards to her having an advantage because she was the first one voted off ... Heck no. It could have been anyone else and they may or may not have done as well. 3 days alone on EOE does not mean you know all of the islands secrets. I think she is a very determined person and used that to gain advantage and influence the game. Boston Rob hid fire tokens he found, he is better at keeping secrets than Natalie so I do not blame her for being her. It would have been a huge risk for her to attempt to do the fire challenge against Tony. It was a needless risk send in one of the minions to do it. I do agree with Sarah's earlier speech ( about 1 hour in ) that there is a gender basis regarding the actions people take and how they are perceived. If Tony had been the one who was voted off first, and returned what are the odds he would have been voted the winner. I liked that Jeff Probst asked teenagers to apply for next season. That would be interesting. Yeah. In an interview that Ethan did, he talked about how Natalie was really the only one who kept playing the game in so many layered ways from the Edge. Other people did to some extent, but most of them didn't nearly as much. He said that Natalie was an integral part of almost every challenge on the Edge and won most of them.
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Post by FannyMare on May 18, 2020 6:19:55 GMT
Just finished watching the finale. Disappointed that Natalie did not win. In regards to her having an advantage because she was the first one voted off ... Heck no. It could have been anyone else and they may or may not have done as well. 3 days alone on EOE does not mean you know all of the islands secrets. I think she is a very determined person and used that to gain advantage and influence the game. Boston Rob hid fire tokens he found, he is better at keeping secrets than Natalie so I do not blame her for being her. It would have been a huge risk for her to attempt to do the fire challenge against Tony. It was a needless risk send in one of the minions to do it. I do agree with Sarah's earlier speech ( about 1 hour in ) that there is a gender basis regarding the actions people take and how they are perceived. If Tony had been the one who was voted off first, and returned what are the odds he would have been voted the winner. I liked that Jeff Probst asked teenagers to apply for next season. That would be interesting. Yeah. In an interview that Ethan did, he talked about how Natalie was really the only one who kept playing the game in so many layered ways from the Edge. Other people did to some extent, but most of them didn't nearly as much. He said that Natalie was an integral part of almost every challenge on the Edge and won most of them. She didn't have much of a social game, an integral part of Survivor I think if Tony had gone, Sarah would have won. She was well liked.
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Post by Bearcata on May 18, 2020 6:56:46 GMT
Yeah. In an interview that Ethan did, he talked about how Natalie was really the only one who kept playing the game in so many layered ways from the Edge. Other people did to some extent, but most of them didn't nearly as much. He said that Natalie was an integral part of almost every challenge on the Edge and won most of them. She didn't have much of a social game, an integral part of Survivor I think if Tony had gone, Sarah would have won. She was well liked. I don't think you have to do equally well in all aspects of the game. Some people are stronger in certain aspects and weaker just like in real life. It's all balanced out in the end. I think it is best to remember that there are 3 aspects of the game. I just remember early seasons where folks came in with the strategy to physically dominant the game but never won. Many folks are good at two aspects, I think it is rare when someone is good at all three. Heck I would vote that person out as soon as possible. I think it would have been much more even of a game had it been between Natalie, Sarah, and Michele. I do feel kinda sorry for Michele as it looked as if no one respected her game at all and she made it to the final three. The quiet ones are never appreciated for surviving vs the flashier ones.
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Post by MissGriss on May 18, 2020 7:04:49 GMT
She didn't have much of a social game, an integral part of Survivor I think if Tony had gone, Sarah would have won. She was well liked. I don't think you have to do equally well in all aspects of the game. Some people are stronger in certain aspects and weaker just like in real life. It's all balanced out in the end. I think it is best to remember that there are 3 aspects of the game. I just remember early seasons where folks came in with the strategy to physically dominant the game but never won. Many folks are good at two aspects, I think it is rare when someone is good at all three. Heck I would vote that person out as soon as possible. I think it would have been much more even of a game had it been between Natalie, Sarah, and Michele. I do feel kinda sorry for Michele as it looked as if no one respected her game at all and she made it to the final three. The quiet ones are never appreciated for surviving vs the flashier ones. It's interesting, because I didn't think she had a very good social game based on what Rob said, but Ethan said that she formed a lot of strong relationships with people on The Edge, so her social game may be better than I thought. As for Michelle, if you watch the "Jury Speaks" videos on YouTube, lots of people commented on the strength of Michelle's game and how it takes a good game to get to the end when you've been an underdog the whole time. They also talked about how impressed they were with the way she pulled out immunity wins when she needed to. Interestingly, on the podcast the Rob Cesterino and Stephen Fishback do, they were saying that they think Michelle was underrated as a player and should have gotten some votes. So not everyone in the Survivor world is lacking respect for her game.
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Post by FannyMare on May 18, 2020 13:53:59 GMT
I don't think you have to do equally well in all aspects of the game. Some people are stronger in certain aspects and weaker just like in real life. It's all balanced out in the end. I think it is best to remember that there are 3 aspects of the game. I just remember early seasons where folks came in with the strategy to physically dominant the game but never won. Many folks are good at two aspects, I think it is rare when someone is good at all three. Heck I would vote that person out as soon as possible. I think it would have been much more even of a game had it been between Natalie, Sarah, and Michele. I do feel kinda sorry for Michele as it looked as if no one respected her game at all and she made it to the final three. The quiet ones are never appreciated for surviving vs the flashier ones. It's interesting, because I didn't think she had a very good social game based on what Rob said, but Ethan said that she formed a lot of strong relationships with people on The Edge, so her social game may be better than I thought. As for Michelle, if you watch the "Jury Speaks" videos on YouTube, lots of people commented on the strength of Michelle's game and how it takes a good game to get to the end when you've been an underdog the whole time. They also talked about how impressed they were with the way she pulled out immunity wins when she needed to. Interestingly, on the podcast the Rob Cesterino and Stephen Fishback do, they were saying that they think Michelle was underrated as a player and should have gotten some votes. So not everyone in the Survivor world is lacking respect for her game. I know who I enjoyed watching the most, I know who did as much as he could , during those weeks, and I'm very happy with the winner. Natalie said herself, she took off, to be alone for a week, a week is a long time on EoE, and while I give her many kudos for winning immuties etc, I didn't care for her on amazing race, and it didn't improve on this show. I think Tony did just about everything right and it looks like most of the jury agreed.
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Post by MissGriss on May 18, 2020 15:02:38 GMT
I'm thrilled with Tony as the winner. I thought he played a great game, and I enjoyed watching him, too. The things I was saying in support of Natalie and Michelle weren't against Tony.
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Post by FannyMare on May 18, 2020 16:41:58 GMT
I'm thrilled with Tony as the winner. I thought he played a great game, and I enjoyed watching him, too. The things I was saying in support of Natalie and Michelle weren't against Tony. It doesn't matter if you were, we all like different players, plus the game is well and truly over..
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Post by Bearcata on May 18, 2020 16:44:37 GMT
I do think there is truth to the gender bias. I do think there is also bias toward women who don't act in a perceived feminine way. Natalie does come across very focused, and determined, and incredibly strong, I think she puts people off. I didn't particularly like her when she won her season, and wasn't really a fan of her on the Amazing Race. But I have to give her a lot of credit of staying focused and in the game the entire season.
I do think the flashier players like Tony get noticed and receive much more credit then that less flashy players like Michele.
The winner is the winner but Tony's constant on the go energy is wearing and I know a lot of guys like him at work who have this big personality and they are their own best sales people but in the long run they don't really deliver or do the work. Probably why I can resist the boyish charm he has.
I did feel sorry for Amber when she confessed that she knows lots of people didn't think she deserved to win the million dollars, she is such a quiet personality I don't know how she ever got cast on Survivor, she did amazingly well on The Amazing Race and I thought they had a very good chance of winning. Boston Rob's over confidence and ego did not help them. But the point I guess is that social media was not kind to Amber or was there that much 20 years ago?
I didn't know that Sara Lucina had such a hard time with her win were social media trolls that mean to her? To me her gender bias speech was her final tribal council speech, at that moment she was the winner in my eyes.
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Post by Bearcata on May 18, 2020 17:07:24 GMT
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Post by FannyMare on May 18, 2020 18:43:26 GMT
I loved Tony's spy nest and can't believe that no one ever saw him up there. He must have been really high up and very well concealed. I was happy with this win. I just saw a You Tube of all the past 35 winners and was surprised that a lot of them I didn't remember and I think I've watched all of the series. I guess at lot of them didn't make any impression on me. Now it's on to Amazing Race. That spy nest was ingenious, he certainly kept himself in the loop, by using it..lol
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Post by savytabby on May 19, 2020 3:26:52 GMT
This challenge looks very exhausting. Bridges, stairs, slide, then a big old puzzle. Does Natalie have an idol too, from her tokens? I couldn't remember. I seem to recall that challenge from the end of Season 30. Mike Holloway won his fifth and final immunity challenge with that challenge, which leads me to say that while I enjoyed this season tremendously and was happy to see Tony win, I really would like to see Mike back on the show playing. I've read in previous articles that he was one of the winners that people feel was snubbed in not being asked back. Would love to see him back and how he would maybe do things differently.
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Post by savytabby on May 19, 2020 3:35:33 GMT
Tony was definitely the most deserving of winners, but I would have loved for an all-women Final Three. Not saying Natalie would have won that way, because Sarah would have definitely been more deserving of the win over her and especially Michele. If Sarah had pulled out the fire-making win, she would have won hands down; maybe even Michele, but it would have been tougher for Michele to beat Sarah. It is interesting that given she knew these people would be in the jury that Natalie did not cultivate more friendships/bonds on EOE.
I also read in a post-finale interview with Michele that four jurors, including Nick and Wendell, said they wanted to vote for her, to come in second, but the concern was they'd be creating a situation where Natalie could win it all. And Michele said she rather them vote for the person they truly wanted to win than give her some stray votes.
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