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Post by angelic_one2002 on Apr 29, 2021 12:59:22 GMT
M&H "claimed" someone had mentioned the baby's skin color, but couldn't say who it was. WHY even sit there bringing this up when it was such a big secret saying "I can't say who it is". I don't think anyone really cares beyond that point and statement. It just makes them look like they're dangling this big secret over everyone's head(attention?). What's to gain from doing that??
And I agree, AZChristian. Private is private. If there were private talks, why even talk about it, when they were just that - private?
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Post by Cuddles on Apr 29, 2021 13:21:14 GMT
I'm sorry, I misunderstood when you were emphasizing multiple conversations to refute AZChristian's point. That's fine. No reason to say you're sorry. Picture it this way: Harry is talking to his father and his father says something that Harry finds inappropriate about his unborn baby. Harry and he get in a heated discussion. In walks Will and Kate who are arriving for an event. Harry tells Will and Kate that he is angry and rather than attending, he will be leaving for the day, that their father had just said something highly offensive. Then three days later Will inquires as to what was said specifically and instead of supporting Harry, Will attempts to validate their father's opinion. Now is that one conversation because it was between Charles and Harry or is it a total of three? And does it really matter?
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Post by acookertv on Apr 29, 2021 13:31:10 GMT
I don't wish to debate whether or not it matters. You were the one who emphasized conversations being plural. I responded. That's all i have to say on the subject. I took your bolding of the plural of conversation to mean you thought it mattered. It does not change my view either way if you were simply testing the bold feature and thought that was irrelevant.
Personally, I think that AZChristian made a great point. I heard Whoopi Goldberg make virtually the same point. When a woman is expecting, it's quite common in anticipating the arrival of the baby to talk about what it will look like. It continues after the baby is born too. I think every time a picture has been released of Archie, I've heard people talking about whether or not he has Harry's red hair. it is possible that whatever comment was made was said from a place of wondering what it would look like. It is also possible that being sensitive to the bi-racial experiences of his wife and future of his child, Harry would have heard it in a different way. I think the truth is we don't know enough about the conversation to draw conclusions. Why is why it probably would have been better for Harry and Meghan to have simply stuck with royal traditions and not made it public.
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Post by Cuddles on Apr 29, 2021 13:42:42 GMT
So yesterday two lovely pics of Will and Kate on their 10th year anniversary were shown. One thing that stood out to me was the emphasis on her ring. Both of them were wearing blue and the ring was front and center in both shots. I thought that was a nice gesture toward their mother, and to Harry, too, since he is the one who gave it to William when he decided to propose to Kate.
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Post by Cuddles on May 2, 2021 5:30:17 GMT
I don't wish to debate whether or not it matters. You were the one who emphasized conversations being plural. I responded. That's all i have to say on the subject. I took your bolding of the plural of conversation to mean you thought it mattered. It does not change my view either way if you were simply testing the bold feature and thought that was irrelevant. Personally, I think that AZChristian made a great point. I heard Whoopi Goldberg make virtually the same point. When a woman is expecting, it's quite common in anticipating the arrival of the baby to talk about what it will look like. It continues after the baby is born too. I think every time a picture has been released of Archie, I've heard people talking about whether or not he has Harry's red hair. it is possible that whatever comment was made was said from a place of wondering what it would look like. It is also possible that being sensitive to the bi-racial experiences of his wife and future of his child, Harry would have heard it in a different way. I think the truth is we don't know enough about the conversation to draw conclusions. Why is why it probably would have been better for Harry and Meghan to have simply stuck with royal traditions and not made it public. Just getting around to responding to this post because I needed time to check Whoopi's comment. I didn't emphasize "conversations" to refute AZC, as you suggested upthread. I emphasized "conversations" because I wished to further discuss the fact that there was conversation/talk about the color of the baby's skin. How many family members were involved originally (or eventually) is not clear but unimportant, in my opinion. If you listen to the interview again, you will hear Meghan say conversations and Oprah replies "What?!" and then immediately uses the word conversation. As I see it, singular or plural, whatever was said to Harry was detrimental enough for him to feel the need to step away. Harry, in fact, stated that "there was some real obvious signs before we even got married that this was going to be really hard." As for Whoopi, I listened to the entire segment and found that every single lady on the panel had the same response to hearing what Meghan & Harry shared during the interview about the baby's skin color - blatant racism - every single lady had that takeaway. No one on the panel found it acceptable.
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Post by acookertv on May 3, 2021 12:42:08 GMT
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Post by AZChristian on May 3, 2021 14:30:56 GMT
More info on the Letters Patent of 1917: The Letters Patent, dated November 30, 1917, stated that “the children of any Sovereign of these Realms and the children of the sons of any such Sovereign (as per the Letters Patent of 1864) and the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales (a modification of the Letters Patent of 1898) shall have and at all times hold and enjoy the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness with their titular dignity of Prince or Princess prefixed to their respective Christian names or with their other titles of honour”. Queen Elizabeth made an amendment to the Letters Patent: On December 31, 2012 Queen Elizabeth II made an amendment to the 1917 Letters Patent by issuing a Letters Patent which gave the title and style His/Her Royal Highness and Prince/Princess of the United Kingdom to all the children of the Prince of Wales’s eldest son. Therefore at birth Louis was thus styled “His Royal Highness Prince Louis of Cambridge”. None of the other great-grandchildren were granted this title and style. There does not seem to have been an intent to treat Archie differently by not granting a title. It's a unique situation because the queen has lived to have great-grandchildren. Those great-grandchildren (in chronological order) are: Princess Anne's granddaughter, Savannah Phillips (Savannah was the only great-grandchild born before the amendment to the Letters Patent.)Princess Anne's granddaughter, Isla Phillips Prince Charles' grandson, Prince George Princess Anne's granddaughter, Mia Tindall Prince Charles' granddaughter, Princess Charlotte Prince Charles' grandson, Prince Louis Princess Anne's granddaughter, Lena Tindall Prince Charles' grandson, Archie Harrison Mountbatten-Windsor Prince Andrew's grandson, August Philip Hawke Brooksbank Princess Anne's granddaughter, Lucas Philip Tindall So of the 10 second cousins, only three have the title, and they are the children of the firstborn son of the Prince of Wales. Seven have no title and - I assume - no security. The article I read went on to say that even folks like Prince Edward and his wife, Sophie, only have security when they are carrying out royal duties. When they are "on their own time," there is no royal security provided. Since Harry and Meghan have decided not to carry out royal duties, they are "on their own time" 100% of the time and do not qualify to have security provided by the crown.
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Post by Cuddles on May 3, 2021 22:12:20 GMT
Somehow Meghan's point has been completely missed. She implicitly stated that Archie would not become a prince until Harry's father became king and she further explained that they wanted to change that convention for Archie.
From the BBC:
According to the 1917 letter, Archie is entitled to become a prince - but not yet. The children of Harry and Meghan, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, would have to wait until Prince Charles, the heir to the throne, became king, at which point they would be the grandchildren of the monarch and hence entitled to be princes or princesses. That is why Prince Andrew's daughters - Beatrice and Eugenie - were princesses from birth, for example.
The Duchess of Sussex was clearly aware of the protocol.
She referred in the interview to a "George V or George VI convention" that would mean her son Archie would become a prince "when Harry's dad becomes king".
But she went on to say that she had been told when she was pregnant that "they want to change the convention for Archie" so he would not become a prince. She did not give any more details about this and Buckingham Palace has not commented on her claims.
"I saw that Meghan mentioned that there were plans to narrow eligibility and I imagine that this is a reference to the Prince of Wales's stated view that the size of the royal family needs to be reduced," said Bob Morris from the Constitution Unit at UCL.
"However, he has not so far as I know given details of how it should be accomplished."
From Huffington Post:
The last few months of the duchess’s pregnancy with her first child with Prince Harry were engulfed in controversy over the royal family deciding not to grant Archie a title of prince or to give him protection. She said there was no explanation for why their son would not receive the same treatment as other grandchildren.
“The most important title I will ever have is mom,” Meghan said. “The idea of our son not being safe, and also the idea that the first member of color in this family not being titled in the same way that other grandchildren would be. The other piece of that conversation; there’s the George V or George VI convention that when you’re the grandchild of a monarch, so when Harry’s dad becomes king, automatically Archie and our next baby would become prince or princess or whatever they’re going to be.”
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Post by acookertv on May 3, 2021 23:04:14 GMT
Changing the convention comes from Charles wanting to scale down the Monarchy, and that’s been a goal of his long before Harry and Meghan met. Harry and Meghan have very much presented the change as some sort of slight to them because Harry married a biracial woman. But Charles motivation has nothing to do with them specifically and everything to do with keeping the Monarchy going.
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Post by justCoz on May 3, 2021 23:31:59 GMT
Several of Queen Elizabeth's own grandchildren are not currently titled prince or princess, Peter and Zara have no titles at all, while James uses his father's lesser title of Viscount Severn and Louise is known as Lady Louise. So it's certainly not true that all grandchildren of the monarch are called prince or princess and that happened long before Meghan showed up.
It's long been reported that Charles didn't want Beatrice or Eugenie to be called princesses, and the added gossip is that Andrew threw a fit and they were called that. I don't know if that's true, but if it is, that also leads credence to the fact that Charles wants a slim-downed monarchy, so no surprise if subsequently he would not to choose to call his second son's children by prince or princess. It actually bolsters that gossip, imo.
If I understand it correctly, Archie is able to be addressed by his father's secondary title, just like Viscount Severn.
I don't have a clue why H&M can't figure out that if grandchildren of Her Majesty aren't all called prince and princess why they think they'd make an exception for great-grandchildren that aren't William's children to be titled that way.
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Post by acookertv on May 4, 2021 0:23:58 GMT
It’s sibling rivalry at it’s very worst. Anne, Andrew, and Edward at least have each other to commiserate about the ways Charles is at a higher level than they are. They also had the benefit of a father who could give an understanding nod since he always had to walk a few steps behind his wife. Harry has no one in a role like that to assure him he’s not alone.
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Post by dagwood on May 4, 2021 14:22:43 GMT
Am I misremembering this but I thought when Archie was born Megan and Harry said they didn't want him to have a title?
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Post by acookertv on May 4, 2021 14:26:41 GMT
Am I misremembering this but I thought when Archie was born Megan and Harry said they didn't want him to have a title? I recall that as well, but I'm not certain if that came from the Palace or from Harry and Meghan directly.
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Post by AZChristian on May 4, 2021 15:42:59 GMT
Am I misremembering this but I thought when Archie was born Megan and Harry said they didn't want him to have a title? Kind of . . . From an article in Newsweek: "Therefore, as per George V's letters patent, Archie will be entitled to the title prince when Prince Charles becomes king, as then he will become the grandchild of the monarch, rather than the great-grandchild. Additionally, Harry and Meghan's daughter, who is expected to be born this summer, will be entitled to the title princess. Although Archie is not yet entitled to be a prince, when he was born he was entitled to have the title of the son of a duke, as Harry is the Duke of Sussex. However, Harry and Meghan chose not to use a title for Archie, such as Lord Archie Harrison Mountbatten-Windsor or Archie, Earl of Dumbarton. Instead, as reported by The New York Times, they chose for their son to be known as Master Archie, "in line with his father's wish that he grow up as a private citizen."================So they want him to grow up as a private citizen, unless THEY want him to be a prince in spite of a century-old decree from the letters patent from George V. Oh. Okay. I get it. They want him to be TITLED . . . but only in keeping with the whims of his ENtitled parents. I think their current concern is that Charles - who has often spoken of trimming down the numbers of the members of the Royal Family who are on the public dole - might change the letters patent to that effect. The bottom line is, the king or queen makes the rules. They don't ask anyone further down the food chain if they like it or not. So H&M's choices - if that happens - are to like it or not. Whining is not royal.
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Post by acookertv on May 4, 2021 16:05:25 GMT
So Harry wanted him to grow up as a private citizen. I wonder if Harry realizes every private citizen in England does not have a security detail.
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Post by FireWoman on May 4, 2021 16:58:12 GMT
Now see, what I heard, read, something'ed somewhere.. it is all so damned convoluted now I can't tell fact from fiction from Meghan/Harry fact anymore.. what was reported was that Meghan and Harry went with no title because they wanted a normal life for him BUT then I heard/read reports that said that was what the palace put out, it wasn't what they agreed to exactly. They did not have the choice??
Again its all so messy I do not know what to take as the right story. Meghan and Harry speak "Their Truth" and that has come to be half truths, falsehoods, and twists on what the truth may or may not be at this point. I want to say that I'd believe something i can see or hear someone saying themselves, but with them its a toss up as to what 'truth' we get I feel. First they were married in private 3 days before the world saw the wedding live.. but a man of the cloth disputed that. They talked about a conversation about the colour of Archie's skin, but NEITHER were actually involved in the conversation.. it is all hearsay at this point. They wanted him to be a prince in title, but were denied that... but by the writing of the law he is not eligible to be one, yet. For the love of all that is good and right this is a dumpster fire at best now. I always had a soft spot for Harry, and honestly I did love Meghan as an actress on Suits, but now I am so over all of their shenanigans and tomfoolery I wish they would just shut up and live the private life they want.
If you have issues with your family, solve them in private like most families do.. don't air your dirty knickers on TV with Oprah!
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Post by angelic_one2002 on May 4, 2021 17:08:10 GMT
They want to live so privately, I just don't understand all this whining, then airing in public. You can't have both - privacy, then whine around publicly and expect your privacy.
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Post by Cuddles on May 4, 2021 17:18:52 GMT
I find it jolly good that they spoke up to straighten the record, and not at all surprising that their words would be twisted to perpetuate rumors.
They tried to correct the record on so many things but the false narratives are still out there and will probably continue on for a long, long time.
Archie wasn't given a title because that's what the royal family decided. It was "not our decision to make."
Harry & Meghan are gainfully employed, able to provide security for themselves and their children, and they're happy and healthy and doing good work.
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Post by acookertv on May 4, 2021 17:30:13 GMT
They want to live so privately, I just don't understand all this whining, then airing in public. You can't have both - privacy, then whine around publicly and expect your privacy. There are A LOT of people in the public eye who cry out that they want privacy, but then are constantly notifying the press of what they are doing to ensure they are covered. Some will go so far as to alert paparazzi of where they will be to get photos taken, and then pretend to be upset when the paparazzi show up there to take pictures. It's done because whining about the need for privacy elicits empathy and dedication from fans. I venture to guess that Harry and Meghan want attention far more than they want privacy.
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Post by Cuddles on May 4, 2021 17:46:33 GMT
Much preferred is probably the Kate and William disastrous video showing what their lives are like, as they try to hold on to their image. You know the ones where they're running and scooping up their children and everyone is gleefully laughing? Our DIL's photographer shot the exact same line of photos. Nice to have but so very staged.
Not that I dislike K&W but I much prefer the authenticity we get from H&M. They've been vulnerable and open and yet they keep Archie's appearances minimal.
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Post by angelic_one2002 on May 4, 2021 18:57:53 GMT
I think it's the way vulnerability is handled and presented by M&H to the media and public, that's key here. I'm sure all the royals would say it wasn't and hasn't been easy. It's the way M&H have chosen to present this.
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Post by dagwood on May 4, 2021 19:41:04 GMT
Am I misremembering this but I thought when Archie was born Megan and Harry said they didn't want him to have a title? However, Harry and Meghan chose not to use a title for Archie, such as Lord Archie Harrison Mountbatten-Windsor or Archie, Earl of Dumbarton. Instead, as reported by The New York Times, they chose for their son to be known as Master Archie, "in line with his father's wish that he grow up as a private citizen."================Thank you! This is what I thought I had read. Which is it? If you want him to be Prince then he will be titled and not a private citizen. I believe Harry wanted him to be a private citizen because of what his mother went through. I know that affected him greatly and he doesn't want his family to go through that. I wonder why he is changing his tune? They need to just stop taking everything to Oprah or Gayle. Keep the family interactions private so this breach can be healed. I am sure it's hard on both sides. Especially his grandmother. I can't imagine the pain she is going through right now with the loss of her husband and this rift.
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Post by FannyMare on May 4, 2021 20:12:52 GMT
I just loved the photos of princess Charlotte.She seems to like the outdoors as much as her mum, and the queen. Very cute family..
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Post by Cuddles on May 4, 2021 20:54:03 GMT
However, Harry and Meghan chose not to use a title for Archie, such as Lord Archie Harrison Mountbatten-Windsor or Archie, Earl of Dumbarton. Instead, as reported by The New York Times, they chose for their son to be known as Master Archie, "in line with his father's wish that he grow up as a private citizen."================Thank you! This is what I thought I had read. Which is it? If you want him to be Prince then he will be titled and not a private citizen. I believe Harry wanted him to be a private citizen because of what his mother went through. I know that affected him greatly and he doesn't want his family to go through that. I wonder why he is changing his tune? They need to just stop taking everything to Oprah or Gayle. Keep the family interactions private so this breach can be healed. I am sure it's hard on both sides. Especially his grandmother. I can't imagine the pain she is going through right now with the loss of her husband and this rift. They did not have a say over the matter but if the notion that they wanted him to have no title stops then what would there be left to ridicule them about? Just like the notion that they refused to have a picture done at the hospital after Archie was born, if only the truth were talked about what would be left? That’s why the interview was so important. It sorted out what we heard and what really happened. The more a lie is told the more embedded it becomes. Someone needed to get out in front of all the lies and set the record straight. And the firm was so desperate to protect themselves from reality that they opened an investigation into Meghan’s behavior before the interview aired! Despicable.
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Post by dagwood on May 4, 2021 21:32:49 GMT
Cuddles, apparently no one is going to change your mind just as you are not going to change other people's minds. How do you know the 100% truth? Because it's what they say? No one knows the full truth unless they were involved which none of us were. I choose to believe that Harry and Megan chose to not have a title for their son, just because prince wasn't an option doesn't mean there weren't options. And with what Harry went through after his mother was hounded by the press and the way she died, I can totally see him choosing not to have his son in the public eye. I stand by my statement that they need to stop taking all this to Gayle and Oprah and deal with their family issues privately with the family. Nothing will ever be repaired if it keeps getting leaked.
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Post by Cuddles on May 4, 2021 23:03:01 GMT
I'm not attempting to change anyone's mind and I don't know the 100% truth, just as you, but for me, if my two choices are what the press says and what the people who it happened to say, and as they tell it all of the pieces of the puzzle from what we've been reading and hearing suddenly all make perfect sense, and it all seems highly plausible, then I have no reason to not believe them. I can't support any gotcha moments, like Meghan said conversations and there was only one conversation, or Meghan said they were married but they weren't really married, they just said their vows, or Meghan said Archie's first word was a several syllable word so she can't be trusted. She's a good mom. They are good parents. They do good work. And they were wise to get out of dodge and make a new life for themselves, one that affords them the ability to keep their children safely protected. As for all the comments here about how they should not be talking to Oprah and Gayle... I've just become numb to that argument. They did one interview and it was aired one night and it set the record straight. Then Gayle said unproductive and that was a big deal. Going forward I hope they will continue to talk at least a little because I personally enjoy hearing from them. Anyway, if my posting has gotten to feel like tit for tat then I will walk away because that's not my intention. Maybe I am starting to take it personally that no one here has anything good to say about them.
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Post by The Mod Team on May 5, 2021 3:46:44 GMT
I'm not attempting to change anyone's mind and I don't know the 100% truth, just as you, but for me, if my two choices are what the press says and what the people who it happened to say, and as they tell it all of the pieces of the puzzle from what we've been reading and hearing suddenly all make perfect sense, and it all seems highly plausible, then I have no reason to not believe them. I can't support any gotcha moments, like Meghan said conversations and there was only one conversation, or Meghan said they were married but they weren't really married, they just said their vows, or Meghan said Archie's first word was a several syllable word so she can't be trusted. She's a good mom. They are good parents. They do good work. And they were wise to get out of dodge and make a new life for themselves, one that affords them the ability to keep their children safely protected. As for all the comments here about how they should not be talking to Oprah and Gayle... I've just become numb to that argument. They did one interview and it was aired one night and it set the record straight. Then Gayle said unproductive and that was a big deal. Going forward I hope they will continue to talk at least a little because I personally enjoy hearing from them. Anyway, if my posting has gotten to feel like tit for tat then I will walk away because that's not my intention. Maybe I am starting to take it personally that no one here has anything good to say about them. This is probably an indicator that you need to take a step back from this thread for a while. As a reminder, this is not a fan site for any individual. While our rules have always been that reality show participants are open to any and all comments, that also extends to threads like this where the discussion is about real people. If you can't handle reading negative comments, you should find a fan site for that person and post about them there. The number of reported posts we get from this thread alone is more than for the entire rest of the site. If posters can't be civil and not fight pitched verbal battles over people they don't actually know, we'll just close the thread. We do still have a "dead horse" rule. State your opinion and move on. You don't have to rebut every single comment you don't agree with.
All opinions are valid here. You don't have to agree with other posters, but you DO have to respect their opinions. If you need to put another poster on ignore, that's a-okay.
Now carry on!
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Post by MissScarlet on May 5, 2021 21:03:07 GMT
I'm not attempting to change anyone's mind and I don't know the 100% truth, just as you, but for me, if my two choices are what the press says and what the people who it happened to say, and as they tell it all of the pieces of the puzzle from what we've been reading and hearing suddenly all make perfect sense, and it all seems highly plausible, then I have no reason to not believe them. I can't support any gotcha moments, like Meghan said conversations and there was only one conversation, or Meghan said they were married but they weren't really married, they just said their vows, or Meghan said Archie's first word was a several syllable word so she can't be trusted. She's a good mom. They are good parents. They do good work. And they were wise to get out of dodge and make a new life for themselves, one that affords them the ability to keep their children safely protected. As for all the comments here about how they should not be talking to Oprah and Gayle... I've just become numb to that argument. They did one interview and it was aired one night and it set the record straight. Then Gayle said unproductive and that was a big deal. Going forward I hope they will continue to talk at least a little because I personally enjoy hearing from them. Anyway, if my posting has gotten to feel like tit for tat then I will walk away because that's not my intention. Maybe I am starting to take it personally that no one here has anything good to say about them. Don't worry, Cuddles. You're not alone. I agree with what you say, and your non judgemental attitude. I think we all need to keep an open mind, not jump to conclusions, and not judge. Nobody knows the whole truth of what's in people's minds. Nor the whole behind the scene story.
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Post by MissGriss on May 6, 2021 5:35:33 GMT
I've pretty much stopped reading this page altogether. It's not fun anymore.
I pop in occasionally (like right now) To see if the Harry Meghan stuff has died down yet and then leave again.
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Post by acookertv on May 6, 2021 11:07:56 GMT
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