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Post by waywyrd on Oct 28, 2020 1:53:38 GMT
Clare sure minded it. Instead of talking to the other guys about themselves, she's grilling them about why they ripped on Dale.
This is such a joke.
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Post by FannyMare on Oct 28, 2020 1:53:58 GMT
They don't walk to talk about Dale..  She is truly clueless!!
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Post by babbred on Oct 28, 2020 1:54:54 GMT
"It was more like Gossip Girl." I was thinking The Brady Brunch. "Dale, Dale, Dale!" (Throw in a tantrum by Clare.)
Pack up the camper! She's going to blow!
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Post by waywyrd on Oct 28, 2020 1:58:00 GMT
Clare: I'm not handing out this rose for the group date tonight. Kthx bye!
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Post by FannyMare on Oct 28, 2020 1:58:27 GMT
"It was more like Gossip Girl." I was thinking The Brady Brunch. "Dale, Dale, Dale!" (Throw in a tantrum by Clare.)
Pack up the camper! She's going to blow!
They should walk out! go for it... |
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Post by waywyrd on Oct 28, 2020 2:01:49 GMT
Please end this thing next week and let's move on with Tayshia.
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Post by Navybelle on Oct 28, 2020 3:13:31 GMT
I was prepared for a disaster of a show tonight, and it wasn't pleasant, but I'm not as upset as some are.
To me, the worst parts were:
- Yosef was excessively rude, and most of what he said was completely unnecessary. When he cut her off from mentioning her mom dying, I was done.
- I watched the kiss-that-wasn't, over and over, and it was awkward, but I think what really bothered her was how he touched her and grabbed her when she backed off. He had his hand first on her neck/chest area, and repeatedly tried to stop her, so I don't blame her. If she had some trauma in her past, I can see how that might have triggered her. Yes, she's dramatic and flighty, but I can't go after her for something like that. A man she barely knew put his hands on her body to stop her from moving away - that could be scary.
- When she didn't give out the group date rose, I thought that was harsh and just dumb, saying they didn't give her what she needed. And they had to air her comments to the producer about slamming her "fiance" then expecting the rose? Those poor guys really wasted a whole day on that nonsense.
Clare sounds awfully defensive in the ITMs about hating on love. Many other leads fall in love too, but don't act so ridiculous.
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Post by Critical on Oct 28, 2020 4:42:15 GMT
I was prepared for a disaster of a show tonight, and it wasn't pleasant, but I'm not as upset as some are. To me, the worst parts were: - Yosef was excessively rude, and most of what he said was completely unnecessary. When he cut her off from mentioning her mom dying, I was done. - I watched the kiss-that-wasn't, over and over, and it was awkward, but I think what really bothered her was how he touched her and grabbed her when she backed off. He had his hand first on her neck/chest area, and repeatedly tried to stop her, so I don't blame her. If she had some trauma in her past, I can see how that might have triggered her. Yes, she's dramatic and flighty, but I can't go after her for something like that. A man she barely knew put his hands on her body to stop her from moving away - that could be scary.- When she didn't give out the group date rose, I thought that was harsh and just dumb, saying they didn't give her what she needed. And they had to air her comments to the producer about slamming her "fiance" then expecting the rose? Those poor guys really wasted a whole day on that nonsense. Clare sounds awfully defensive in the ITMs about hating on love. Many other leads fall in love too, but don't act so ridiculous. That upset me while I was watching. I have a thing about someone grabbing me or someone holding me in place, if that makes sense. Any man who does that to me is DONE. That's maybe the one thing that truly triggers me. Zach grabbing onto Claire and not taking no for an answer is right in the same realm as Yosef talking over Claire and not letting her speak: it's a lack of respect for her as a person and a feeling like the man is entitled to her attention, physical or mental. Like what the man wants is more important than what she wants.
Margaret Cho about how she's afraid of Bennett and thinks she'll end up hearing about him on a true crime podcast  |
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Post by MissScarlet on Oct 28, 2020 4:57:19 GMT
Tonight's show was uncomfortable to watch. I'm a Clare fan, but the Producers/Editors surely aren't. She got a really negative edit tonight. Some of the stuff was clearly edited to cut off anything positive that happened. I guess the point of this is to get the viewers to the point where they don't mind Tayshia showing up next week to take over.
Anyhow, on to the drama:
Yousef did not have to do that to her. I agree with his view on the Naked Dodgeball date, but he wasn't even there. Not his place to go off about it. He was rude & insulting to Clare. If he didn't want to be there, just leave. He didn't have to be such a major jerk about it. No excuse for treating her like that. What a clod.
Zack somehow did something to make her extremely uncomfortable. Grabbing her was a big mistake. I can see that. I don't like unexpected or unwanted grabs either. I don't think it was deliberate on his part, but unfortunate.
We're seeing that Clare tends to react strongly to things that strike her as wrong.
That first "group" date was handled poorly by her. First off, why didn't she tell the guys that she just spent the day visiting with DeeAnna? Plus, what was the purpose of that visit anyhow? I thought DeeAnna would at least show up to meet the guys. I'll bet an awful lot of her visit was left on the cutting room floor. If not, that was a totally useless waste of everyone's time, even ours.
As to the guys, I don't blame them being upset about the time she spent with Dale instead of them. Unless that was drastically edited, that wasn't right to the guys.
I've never liked roasts. They always turn mean. I don't like mean. That whole thing was clearly Producer set up.
Then afterwards she didn't seem to spend any time at all getting to know the guys, just questioning them about the things they said about Dale. That is, unless that was drastically edited too.
I'm getting the feeling this episode was deliberately & drastically edited against Clare.
Well, it's clear that this thing has got to end. It's just not fair to the guys & not fun to watch anymore.
Once again there were a lot of previews at the beginning of the episode that we never saw.
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Post by FannyMare on Oct 28, 2020 5:03:02 GMT
Exactly. I think tptb dragged this out, as far as they possibly could.
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Post by babbred on Oct 28, 2020 12:16:28 GMT
I was prepared for a disaster of a show tonight, and it wasn't pleasant, but I'm not as upset as some are. To me, the worst parts were: - Yosef was excessively rude, and most of what he said was completely unnecessary. When he cut her off from mentioning her mom dying, I was done. - I watched the kiss-that-wasn't, over and over, and it was awkward, but I think what really bothered her was how he touched her and grabbed her when she backed off. He had his hand first on her neck/chest area, and repeatedly tried to stop her, so I don't blame her. If she had some trauma in her past, I can see how that might have triggered her. Yes, she's dramatic and flighty, but I can't go after her for something like that. A man she barely knew put his hands on her body to stop her from moving away - that could be scary.- When she didn't give out the group date rose, I thought that was harsh and just dumb, saying they didn't give her what she needed. And they had to air her comments to the producer about slamming her "fiance" then expecting the rose? Those poor guys really wasted a whole day on that nonsense. Clare sounds awfully defensive in the ITMs about hating on love. Many other leads fall in love too, but don't act so ridiculous. That upset me while I was watching. I have a thing about someone grabbing me or someone holding me in place, if that makes sense. Any man who does that to me is DONE. That's maybe the one thing that truly triggers me. Zach grabbing onto Claire and not taking no for an answer is right in the same realm as Yosef talking over Claire and not letting her speak: it's a lack of respect for her as a person and a feeling like the man is entitled to her attention, physical or mental. Like what the man wants is more important than what she wants.
Margaret Cho about how she's afraid of Bennett and thinks she'll end up hearing about him on a true crime podcast It makes perfect sense. Once again with Clare, we got a mess. Maybe she shouldn't have pulled away from the kiss. I don't know; I'm in two minds about that. Yes, it hurt the poor man's feelings. OTOH, the thought of allowing some strange guy for whom I had no feelings to kiss me just feels yuk. So I don't necessarily fault her for that. She probably could have handled his reaction better, just explaining "I'm not in the mood" or something. Would he have taken it better? Who knows?  That was an absolute deal-breaker for me, though, when he started physically trying to prevent her from leaving. It's bad enough if you do that to someone of your own gender. For a man to do that to a woman, though, is just wrong. I would have freaked out, too, and I probably would not have come back for the evening part, either. I know. They had some good lines last night. "This is more like Gossip Girl." So true! Once again, I couldn't help but think of the high school analogy. Clare's running around to quiz everybody about Dale was just so immature. I almost expected her to say, "Like, how could you do that? That is so RUDE!" while she hit the other guys.  |
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Post by acookertv on Oct 28, 2020 12:52:32 GMT
I hear you on not being comfortable with a guy you don't have feelings for kissing you babbred - but I also would not go on The Bachelorette. Claire decided to do it - so the expectations are known. I do agree that the way he grabbed her and tried to keep her from going away was too much. And while I understand her not wanting to continue with dinner after that, the problem I have with that is that by that time, she'd dropped out of way too many things she didn't feel like doing. After the confrontation with Yosef she didn't feel comfortable spending time with any of the guys. When Deanna came, she didn't feel like doing the daytime part of the date. So while a woman is totally justified to not be with a man after feeling he'd been too aggressive, as a pattern it was problematic.
I'm starting to think that the real reason for the mid-season flip was the behind the scenes Claire was fired as the bachelorette - not that she just fell in love so it wasn't worth going on. I think producers had a challenge on their hands with a bachelorette who was not willing to film the show. I mean, Trista has admitted that as soon as she met Ryan she knew he was the one and that was that. But she still played along and gave them a TV show!
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Post by Gutmutter on Oct 28, 2020 14:25:39 GMT
I’ll preface with I’ve never really been comfortable with the whole format of this show, but find myself watching and having opinions. 😄
I also believe that she checked out Dale’s social media but didn’t contact him prior to the show.
I do believe that some people are just hit with a lightning bolt when they meet “the one” and they just know. So given all that, what is she to do? She doesn’t want to spend time with anyone but him. She doesn’t want to kiss anyone but him. I think cutting her season short was the most honest thing for her/them to do and regardless of whose call it was, I’m sure she was relieved. I hope they’re happy and were compensated for providing the most shocking ending ever, or however they’re spinning it.
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Post by FannyMare on Oct 28, 2020 15:17:06 GMT
I’ll preface with I’ve never really been comfortable with the whole format of this show, but find myself watching and having opinions. 😄 I also believe that she checked out Dale’s social media but didn’t contact him prior to the show. I do believe that some people are just hit with a lightning bolt when they meet “the one” and they just know. So given all that, what is she to do? She doesn’t want to spend time with anyone but him. She doesn’t want to kiss anyone but him. I think cutting her season short was the most honest thing for her/them to do and regardless of whose call it was, I’m sure she was relieved. I hope they’re happy and were compensated for providing the most shocking ending ever, or however they’re spinning it. I think Claire did the right thing, I guess knowing for awhile what happened, I'm not shocked, plus, it was just a matter of time before the lead only wants to be with one man, and not go into the fantasy suites with two or three other men.. |
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Post by MissGriss on Oct 29, 2020 1:01:06 GMT
Ugh. It sounds like such a dumpster fire that I'm not sure I want to watch it now that I can (the day after on Hulu).
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Post by Cuddles on Oct 29, 2020 14:25:21 GMT
I haven't watched this particular program yet but I've caught the first two. It might not be popular but I am with Yosef in that strip dodgeball was a bit classless. Clare owned it when she said something like my game, my rules, so whatever the fallout, she should've been prepared. I don't really think Yosef was out of line when he wanted to speak for the group after that awkward silence, either. Here at FORT we often speak for one another when we post at General Discussion or Talk About Your Troubles, it's not meant to offend or project over anyone, it's just meant as collective support. However, it sounds like in the program I haven't seen yet, Yosef does get over skis. So I'll have to see what I think about that, lol. As for Clare's instant attraction and devotion to Dale, it's rather odd. She seems to require so much from the other guys but no matter what falls out of Dale's mouth, she's there for it. I will give her high marks for her date with Jason, though. She really brought her A-game that evening.
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Post by MissScarlet on Oct 29, 2020 22:30:27 GMT
The more I think about it & read others' comments, I've noticed one thing that no one seems to be mentioning, that really struck me strong at the time, but was just passed over.
When Yosef was ranting to Clare, he repeatedly mentioned his daughter & how much he missed her & "gave up" to be there, as if he were the only one who "gave up" anything or anyone at home.
Then Clare, in a moment of attempted solidarity with him, to try to calm him down, said she also "gave up" time with her mother & that her mother was dying - her words.
Yosef completely brushed off & past this statement. I did see a very brief moment of hesitation, but quickly turned it all about him & continued trashing her, increasingly brutally.
Now this was HUGE to me. This was a gigantic declaration on her part. A truly traumatic statement. But No compassion. No asking her about it. No solidarity. No nothing.
That was the mark of a truly cold & uncompassionate man. The mark of a narcissist clear as a bell.
What person when getting to know someone, especially if remotely interested, or even remotely caring about others, would let her statement go without a bit of sympathy or at least a question about it?
I'll tell you what person. A narcissist. Yosef.
That said all about him I needed to know.
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Post by FannyMare on Oct 29, 2020 22:36:26 GMT
The more I think about it & read others' comments, I've noticed one thing that no one seems to be mentioning, that really struck me strong at the time, but was just passed over. When Yosef was ranting to Clare, he repeatedly mentioned his daughter & how much he missed her & "gave up" to be there, as if he were the only one who "gave up" anything or anyone at home. Then Clare, in a moment of attempted solidarity with him, to try to calm him down, said she also "gave up" time with her mother & that her mother was dying - her words. Yosef completely brushed off & past this statement. I did see a very brief moment of hesitation, but quickly turned it all about him & continued trashing her, increasingly brutally. Now this was HUGE to me. This was a gigantic declaration on her part. A truly traumatic statement. But No compassion. No asking her about it. No solidarity. No nothing. That was the mark of a truly cold & uncompassionate man. The mark of a narcissist clear as a bell. What person when getting to know someone, especially if remotely interested, or even remotely caring about others, would let her statement go without a bit of sympathy or at least a question about it? I'll tell you what person. A narcissist. Yosef. That said all about him I needed to know. You're right, it was all about him. I didn't like him, and this is the guy that was reaching out to other women, while they were all in quarantine, he just wanted extra tv time.. There are shows on now, love at first sight, he could go on that, and be fine on his own.. |
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Post by Cuddles on Oct 29, 2020 23:22:20 GMT
You're right, it was all about him. I didn't like him, and this is the guy that was reaching out to other women, while they were all in quarantine, he just wanted extra tv time.. There are shows on now, love at first sight, he could go on that, and be fine on his own.. Is Yosef the guy that got called out by another bachelor on night one?! She took the two guys aside to iron things out and then walked away when she'd heard enough, is he one of those guys?! |
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Post by waywyrd on Oct 29, 2020 23:25:01 GMT
You're right, it was all about him. I didn't like him, and this is the guy that was reaching out to other women, while they were all in quarantine, he just wanted extra tv time.. There are shows on now, love at first sight, he could go on that, and be fine on his own.. Is Yosef the guy that got called out by another bachelor on night one?! She took the two guys aside to iron things out and then walked away when she'd heard enough, is he one of those guys?! Yes! Tyler C. (whom I really liked) called Yosef out for chatting up a bunch of girls on Instagram, and Clare sent Tyler home for his troubles. Guess she should have listened.  |
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Post by MissScarlet on Oct 29, 2020 23:30:43 GMT
You're right, it was all about him. I didn't like him, and this is the guy that was reaching out to other women, while they were all in quarantine, he just wanted extra tv time.. There are shows on now, love at first sight, he could go on that, and be fine on his own.. Is Yosef the guy that got called out by another bachelor on night one?! She took the two guys aside to iron things out and then walked away when she'd heard enough, is he one of those guys?! Yes, and she sent the other guy home.  Wrong choice. It's common practice on this show to send tattlers home. Usually the tattling is justified too. But the moment I see a contestant go to the lead & "inform" them about another contestant I think: "Dumb, dumb, dumb. Don't you ever watch this show? You're going home now." |
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Post by FannyMare on Oct 29, 2020 23:52:18 GMT
Is Yosef the guy that got called out by another bachelor on night one?! She took the two guys aside to iron things out and then walked away when she'd heard enough, is he one of those guys?! Yes, and she sent the other guy home. Wrong choice. It's common practice on this show to send tattlers home. Usually the tattling is justified too. But the moment I see a contestant go to the lead & "inform" them about another contestant I think: "Dumb, dumb, dumb. Don't you ever watch this show? You're going home now." I think he was a producer's pick, said that from the start. |
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Post by Cuddles on Oct 29, 2020 23:56:07 GMT
Oh my word! Took me long enough to put the pieces of that puzzle together! Thanks, everyone!
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Post by MissScarlet on Oct 30, 2020 0:02:50 GMT
Yes, and she sent the other guy home. Wrong choice. It's common practice on this show to send tattlers home. Usually the tattling is justified too. But the moment I see a contestant go to the lead & "inform" them about another contestant I think: "Dumb, dumb, dumb. Don't you ever watch this show? You're going home now." I think he was a producer's pick, said that from the start. I agree. They surely knew exactly what they had in him. Just a matter of time before he showed himself. In fact, he probably had production in his ear getting him all riled up since the beginning. These production people know exactly what they're doing & exactly who they have. |
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Post by Critical on Oct 30, 2020 0:17:02 GMT
I hear you on not being comfortable with a guy you don't have feelings for kissing you babbred - but I also would not go on The Bachelorette. Claire decided to do it - so the expectations are known. I do agree that the way he grabbed her and tried to keep her from going away was too much. And while I understand her not wanting to continue with dinner after that, the problem I have with that is that by that time, she'd dropped out of way too many things she didn't feel like doing. After the confrontation with Yosef she didn't feel comfortable spending time with any of the guys. When Deanna came, she didn't feel like doing the daytime part of the date. So while a woman is totally justified to not be with a man after feeling he'd been too aggressive, as a pattern it was problematic. I'm starting to think that the real reason for the mid-season flip was the behind the scenes Claire was fired as the bachelorette - not that she just fell in love so it wasn't worth going on. I think producers had a challenge on their hands with a bachelorette who was not willing to film the show. I mean, Trista has admitted that as soon as she met Ryan she knew he was the one and that was that. But she still played along and gave them a TV show! So, because people kiss on the show, Claire (or any other bachelorette) should have to kiss any man who wants to kiss her, regardless of how she feels? She doesn't have to kiss anyone she doesn't want to kiss. It doesn't matter if they were inches from kissing. She clearly got a bad vibe from him and backed off. He doesn't get what he wants just because he wants it or because it might hurt his ego if he doesn't get it (I've seen that argument too). This just feels too much like "I bought you dinner, so now you need to put out." Men (and women) are not entitled to physical affection. Ever. Nor are women (or men) obligated to give that affection.
According to Reality Steve, when someone gets eliminated during a 1-on-1 date, the producers know it ahead of time - the person is chosen because the lead is ready to send them home. SO, even if Zach had gotten to the dinner portion of the date, he was going home anyway.
I don't understand all the hate Claire is getting. Fans have been asking for a strong lead who stands up for herself. That's what they got. Anyone who has watched this show for any length of time should know that they have thousands of hours of footage that they can edit in any way they want. They're clearly editing Claire in a negative way and that helps with their narrative when they bring in Tayshia. I've always had a bit of a problem with leads who know early on who they're going to pick, but string the others along the whole time. We've had multiple leadssay :I love you" to more than one person when they claim to have known who they were going to pick. It feels kinder, IMO, to just end it. Obviously, there are contracts involved, but I still am not going to fault Claire for not being able to go along with the charade when her heart isn't in it.
Claire's definitely nicer than I am. If Yosef had been spewing that crap at ME for 20 minutes, he wouldn't have gotten out of there without an least a limp. Based on info Reality Steve has gotten from multiple women, Yosef is a total scumbag with women, so him bashing Claire the way he did is pretty rich.
As for how people are blaming Claire for that date, we should all know by now that the lead has no say in the planning of the dates. If they can plan one that causes a little controversy, which they know leads to publicity and ratings, they will. Blaming Claire for that "naked" date is ridiculous.
Robert Mills was on Nick Viall's podcast and he totally makes it sound like they didn't have Tayshia in reserve long before the Claire-Dale situation came to a head. We know from RS that Tayshia was at La Quinta and in quarantine for NINE days before she started filming and they definitely didn't halt filming for that long. It was a matter of a day or two between Claire blowing off the guys on the day portion of the date (I think that was a Saturday) and when Tayshia started filming on (I think) that following Monday.
I'm curious about how the guys will react to Tayshia, but I'm not optimistic about her "story" ending in love.
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Post by FannyMare on Oct 30, 2020 0:18:28 GMT
I think he was a producer's pick, said that from the start. I agree. They surely knew exactly what they had in him. Just a matter of time before he showed himself. In fact, he probably had production in his ear getting him all riled up since the beginning. These production people know exactly what they're doing & exactly who they have.We're just a lot wiser, to their manipulations now.  |
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Post by Critical on Oct 30, 2020 0:24:45 GMT
I agree. They surely knew exactly what they had in him. Just a matter of time before he showed himself. In fact, he probably had production in his ear getting him all riled up since the beginning. These production people know exactly what they're doing & exactly who they have.We're just a lot wiser, to their manipulations now. Yep  If you have any doubts about what this show is really about, go watch a few seasons of UnReal and know that a former producer of the Bach franchise was a co-creater on UnReal. That show may seem far-fetched and over-the-top, but something tells me that it's not THAT far off.
It's not really about love, it's about money and ratings. If love happens at the end, then great, but they're just as happy if it's a total trainwreck (hello, Peter's mother) because they get the ratings anyway.
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Post by FannyMare on Oct 30, 2020 0:24:55 GMT
I hear you on not being comfortable with a guy you don't have feelings for kissing you babbred - but I also would not go on The Bachelorette. Claire decided to do it - so the expectations are known. I do agree that the way he grabbed her and tried to keep her from going away was too much. And while I understand her not wanting to continue with dinner after that, the problem I have with that is that by that time, she'd dropped out of way too many things she didn't feel like doing. After the confrontation with Yosef she didn't feel comfortable spending time with any of the guys. When Deanna came, she didn't feel like doing the daytime part of the date. So while a woman is totally justified to not be with a man after feeling he'd been too aggressive, as a pattern it was problematic. I'm starting to think that the real reason for the mid-season flip was the behind the scenes Claire was fired as the bachelorette - not that she just fell in love so it wasn't worth going on. I think producers had a challenge on their hands with a bachelorette who was not willing to film the show. I mean, Trista has admitted that as soon as she met Ryan she knew he was the one and that was that. But she still played along and gave them a TV show! Played along ? more fool her, that was time she could have had with Ryan. This show has wanted a strong lead ( as Critical said) now we have one, we don't like her. Well I like her, she looks a little tone deaf when it comes to the guys, but that's called editing..  |
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Post by FannyMare on Oct 30, 2020 0:27:14 GMT
We're just a lot wiser, to their manipulations now. Yep If you have any doubts about what this show is really about, go watch a few seasons of UnReal and know that a former producer of the Bach franchise was a co-creater on UnReal. That show may seem far-fetched and over-the-top, but something tells me that it's not THAT far off.
It's not really about love, it's about money and ratings. If love happens at the end, then great, but they're just as happy if it's a total trainwreck (hello, Peter's mother) because they get the ratings anyway.
I loved that show, especially how it showed us the truth behind the rose! |
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Post by Navybelle on Oct 30, 2020 4:52:45 GMT
To me, there's a difference between being a "strong" woman, and one who is selfish or rude, or uses being "strong" as an excuse to act like an A$$. Clare walks a fine line here: the way she dismissed the guy's feedback and kept asking about Dale's roasting, in the daytime how she left the guys on the couch waiting for hours for her, and then on the date, she went off with Dale for an uncomfortably long time. It's not that I don't like a strong woman, but I don't like it when strong women think they can be rude. Women or men, actually.
I don't blame her for the stripping game, or how she reacted to the guy who grabbed her. I thought she handled herself well then and also with Yosef. But then she's in her ITMs getting defensive about people hating on love, like she should be able to do what she wants in the name of love. I think it was Sharleen who stated it perfectly, that she's acting like her time is more precious than any of theirs. Sharleen had been left waiting on a date when Clare and JP were making out, so she knows how it is to be left waiting and sitting there ... and I agree it's rude.
Sometimes the show and production does things to make people (usually unfairly) look bad, and sometimes, they just do it themselves (Yosef!). Let her go off with Dale and be in love, because she doesn't seem interested in continuing with the show. If it works for her, I'm happy for her.
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That was an absolute deal-breaker for me, though, when he started physically trying to prevent her from leaving. It's bad enough if you do that to someone of your own gender. For a man to do that to a woman, though, is just wrong. I would have freaked out, too, and I probably would not have come back for the evening part, either.
Wrong choice.
If you have any doubts about what this show is really about, go watch a few seasons of UnReal and know that a former producer of the Bach franchise was a co-creater on UnReal. That show may seem far-fetched and over-the-top, but something tells me that it's not THAT far off. 