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Post by MissGriss on Oct 30, 2020 6:25:49 GMT
Yes, Navybelle, Sharleen's recap this week was really interesting. She's been defending Clare's behavior up until this week, and she still applauded her standing up to Yousef and Zach, but (as you said) she pointed out the numerous times that Clare was inconsiderate of others time and feelings. It's definitely worth the read and her insider perspective this week, I think!
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Post by acookertv on Oct 30, 2020 12:49:50 GMT
I hear you on not being comfortable with a guy you don't have feelings for kissing you babbred - but I also would not go on The Bachelorette. Claire decided to do it - so the expectations are known. I do agree that the way he grabbed her and tried to keep her from going away was too much. And while I understand her not wanting to continue with dinner after that, the problem I have with that is that by that time, she'd dropped out of way too many things she didn't feel like doing. After the confrontation with Yosef she didn't feel comfortable spending time with any of the guys. When Deanna came, she didn't feel like doing the daytime part of the date. So while a woman is totally justified to not be with a man after feeling he'd been too aggressive, as a pattern it was problematic. I'm starting to think that the real reason for the mid-season flip was the behind the scenes Claire was fired as the bachelorette - not that she just fell in love so it wasn't worth going on. I think producers had a challenge on their hands with a bachelorette who was not willing to film the show. I mean, Trista has admitted that as soon as she met Ryan she knew he was the one and that was that. But she still played along and gave them a TV show! So, because people kiss on the show, Claire (or any other bachelorette) should have to kiss any man who wants to kiss her, regardless of how she feels? She doesn't have to kiss anyone she doesn't want to kiss. It doesn't matter if they were inches from kissing. She clearly got a bad vibe from him and backed off. He doesn't get what he wants just because he wants it or because it might hurt his ego if he doesn't get it (I've seen that argument too). This just feels too much like "I bought you dinner, so now you need to put out." Men (and women) are not entitled to physical affection. Ever. Nor are women (or men) obligated to give that affection.
According to Reality Steve, when someone gets eliminated during a 1-on-1 date, the producers know it ahead of time - the person is chosen because the lead is ready to send them home. SO, even if Zach had gotten to the dinner portion of the date, he was going home anyway.
I don't understand all the hate Claire is getting. Fans have been asking for a strong lead who stands up for herself. That's what they got. Anyone who has watched this show for any length of time should know that they have thousands of hours of footage that they can edit in any way they want. They're clearly editing Claire in a negative way and that helps with their narrative when they bring in Tayshia. I've always had a bit of a problem with leads who know early on who they're going to pick, but string the others along the whole time. We've had multiple leadssay :I love you" to more than one person when they claim to have known who they were going to pick. It feels kinder, IMO, to just end it. Obviously, there are contracts involved, but I still am not going to fault Claire for not being able to go along with the charade when her heart isn't in it.
Claire's definitely nicer than I am. If Yosef had been spewing that crap at ME for 20 minutes, he wouldn't have gotten out of there without an least a limp. Based on info Reality Steve has gotten from multiple women, Yosef is a total scumbag with women, so him bashing Claire the way he did is pretty rich.
As for how people are blaming Claire for that date, we should all know by now that the lead has no say in the planning of the dates. If they can plan one that causes a little controversy, which they know leads to publicity and ratings, they will. Blaming Claire for that "naked" date is ridiculous.
Robert Mills was on Nick Viall's podcast and he totally makes it sound like they didn't have Tayshia in reserve long before the Claire-Dale situation came to a head. We know from RS that Tayshia was at La Quinta and in quarantine for NINE days before she started filming and they definitely didn't halt filming for that long. It was a matter of a day or two between Claire blowing off the guys on the day portion of the date (I think that was a Saturday) and when Tayshia started filming on (I think) that following Monday.
I'm curious about how the guys will react to Tayshia, but I'm not optimistic about her "story" ending in love.
No Critical - a person who goes on the show does not have to kiss people she doesn't want to. I think that is putting words in my mouth in order to be outraged by them. I was comparing real life dating standards that babbred comment on to Bachelorette dating standard which are different. I mean, I would not normally go out with eight men in the same night, but it's fairly common on this show. So no, I'm not looking to force anyone into anything. Just recognizing that dating on the Bachelorette is not the same as dating in real life. No need to read anything into it beyond that. As for the hate Claire is getting - I think there is a difference between a woman who stands up for herself and a woman who is self involved. To me, Claire is self involved. While I acknowledge that it's hard to tell what is her and what is producer created, I think the dates she's had have been more focused on HER likes and interests than what is common. The conversations on the dates have been much more about her and only her than usual - it's like her way to get to know a guy is to find out what he feels towards her. The self-involvement turns me off and I don't see it as standing up for herself.
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Post by FannyMare on Oct 30, 2020 12:52:05 GMT
Yes, Navybelle , Sharleen's recap this week was really interesting. She's been defending Clare's behavior up until this week, and she still applauded her standing up to Yousef and Zach, but (as you said) she pointed out the numerous times that Clare was inconsiderate of others time and feelings. It's definitely worth the read and her insider perspective this week, I think! I read some of it, she forgot to mention producers encourage and favour this behavior, How else do you get a bunch of men, fired up enough, to walk off? It's been awhile since she's been on set, so I'll give her a pass.. If you read the thread in here, she said very little that hasn't been said already..
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Post by MissScarlet on Oct 30, 2020 18:49:09 GMT
Yes, Navybelle , Sharleen's recap this week was really interesting. She's been defending Clare's behavior up until this week, and she still applauded her standing up to Yousef and Zach, but (as you said) she pointed out the numerous times that Clare was inconsiderate of others time and feelings. It's definitely worth the read and her insider perspective this week, I think! I read some of it, she forgot to mention producers encourage and favour this behavior, How else do you get a bunch of men, fired up enough, to walk off? It's been awhile since she's been on set, so I'll give her a pass.. If you read the thread in here, she said very little that hasn't been said already.. I'm choosing not to read Sharleen's recaps this season. I think she's biased. She's trying not to be, but she is. She was on Juan Pablo's season with Clare, and she (Sharleen) was one of the Mean Girl Crew. Anyone who wasn't part of their group was one of their victims. Not outright violence or extreme methods, but snottiness & exclusion. Sharleen often mentions the other members of her crew in her column. She doesn't trash Clare or anything, but I Clare was clearly not included then or now. They also, then & now, came across as snooty & entitled. A bunch of better-than-thou's. Sharleen is insightful in her recaps from previous seasons, and they can be fun to read, but I still see that snooty, entitled attitude. I'll go back to reading her columns after this season, but nomatter how much she tries not to be, this season she's biased. Old attitudes die hard.
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Post by FannyMare on Oct 30, 2020 19:29:59 GMT
I think she was okay at one time, Flair magazine is for teens in Canada, so I don't know if her recaps are that popular here. In a forum in Canada, she is never mentioned. A few people I know, think she is snooty, but, others here seem to like her. Each to their own. She wasn't keen on the show Critical mentioned, , that showed up all the warts on the bachelor, so that put me off her. I hope the next bachelorette finds someone , but I hold out very little hope. She seemed a bit desperate on BIP, lets hope she can hold her own, on this show.
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Post by Critical on Oct 31, 2020 6:18:50 GMT
Michelle Money was on the US Magazine Bachelor podcast "Here For the Right Reasons," this week talking about this season. She and Claire are BFFs. She's pretty angry about the edit Claire is getting. She said that Claire spent time with ALL of the guys that night where they made it look like she ignored them all and spent all her time with Dale. Obviously, it's harder for them to justify pushing Claire out if they don't edit things to seem like she ONLY spent her time with Dale. They had to make it seem blatant. They have hundreds of hours of footage of Claire to edit into a only a few episodes. They can craft whatever narrative they want. I'm not saying Claire wasn't immediately gaga for Dale - she clearly was - but they're making it look like she was super rude to the other guys and that doesn't sound like what happened. Still, it would be harder for them to justify bringing in another woman if they didn't edit things like this.....and if they don't admit they had Tayshia quarantining DYS before Claire "left." I've always liked Sharleen, but I heard her on a podcast not all that long ago (if I can remember which one, I'll post) and she was way too much of a Juan Pablo apologist for my tastes. Maybe that's because she seemed like the only one he seemed truly upset about saying goodbye oo
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Post by MissGriss on Oct 31, 2020 6:25:41 GMT
Sharleen is definitely a Joan Pablo apologist. When their aired his season this summer, she wrote a whole Flare recap about how misrepresented he had been. I appreciated many of the points she made, but I hear your point that she may have had a different experience of him than other did. He did seem to be totally taken with her and much more interested in knowing about her than most of the others.
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Post by Critical on Oct 31, 2020 6:31:15 GMT
Sharleen is definitely a Joan Pablo apologist. When their aired his season this summer, she wrote a whole Flare recap about how misrepresented he had been. I appreciated many of the points she made, but I hear your point that she may have had a different experience of him than other did. He did seem to be totally taken with her and much more interested in knowing about her than most of the others.That's because she was too good for him. I remember saying to my mom at the time, "What the hell is SHE doing on this show?" It was even more obvious on his season because he was such a insensitive clod.....although, really, none of the bachelors are what you'd consider a brain trust
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Post by acookertv on Oct 31, 2020 12:39:08 GMT
Michelle Money was on the US Magazine Bachelor podcast "Here For the Right Reasons," this week talking about this season. She and Claire are BFFs. She's pretty angry about the edit Claire is getting. She said that Claire spent time with ALL of the guys that night where they made it look like she ignored them all and spent all her time with Dale. Obviously, it's harder for them to justify pushing Claire out if they don't edit things to seem like she ONLY spent her time with Dale. They had to make it seem blatant. They have hundreds of hours of footage of Claire to edit into a only a few episodes. They can craft whatever narrative they want. I'm not saying Claire wasn't immediately gaga for Dale - she clearly was - but they're making it look like she was super rude to the other guys and that doesn't sound like what happened. Still, it would be harder for them to justify bringing in another woman if they didn't edit things like this.....and if they don't admit they had Tayshia quarantining DYS before Claire "left." I've always liked Sharleen, but I heard her on a podcast not all that long ago (if I can remember which one, I'll post) and she was way too much of a Juan Pablo apologist for my tastes. Maybe that's because she seemed like the only one he seemed truly upset about saying goodbye oo On pretty much any reality show, when a person cast as a villain blames editing, others usually say they can’t edit it if the person didn’t give the editors the behavior they showed. Fair point that they can leave good behavior on the cutting room floor, but the bad stuff still happened. So Claire still decided not to give any of the guys a rose on the group date (which the producers said was the final straw). She still cancelled the day portion of the group date. While she may have talked about other stuff too she still worked talking about Dale into all the conversations after the roast. From what producers have said it was those things that made them realize they needed to move on. Editing didn’t create those even if she did good stuff we didn’t see.
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Post by FannyMare on Nov 1, 2020 21:26:10 GMT
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Post by MissGriss on Nov 1, 2020 22:29:06 GMT
Yeah. I saw an article yesterday about an interview with Benoit where he was saying that the person they are showing with the editing is not the person he knows. And he said that he thinks the word "fiance" in that quote was frankenbitten from the unaired segment that they shot about her engagement to him. Her back is to the camera when she "says" it, so it could be edited in from anywhere.
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Post by FannyMare on Nov 1, 2020 22:41:41 GMT
Yeah. I saw an article yesterday about an interview with Benoit where he was saying that the person they are showing with the editing is not the person he knows. And he said that he thinks the word "fiance" in that quote was frankenbitten from the unaired segment that they shot about her engagement to him. Her back is to the camera when she "says" it, so it could be edited in from anywhere. Was he mentioned in the roast, he seemed to think he was, and that's what upset her, because they are still good friends. Everyone knows the editors can make or break you, but I was pleased to see he stuck up for her..
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Post by MissGriss on Nov 2, 2020 2:42:11 GMT
I don't know if he was mentioned in the roast. There wasn't anything about that in the article I saw. He said there was an interview with him (and her, it sounded like) about Winter Games and their engagement, but it didn't make it into the first episode.
He said he doesn't doubt that she fell hard for Dale, but he's also sure she would have spent time with the other guys having meaningful conversations, because that's just the way she is. She's interested in people and likes to have feel conversations.
I know very little about her, so I don't know what is and isn't true. I do know that, like you said Fanny, editing can create whatever story they want to sit you.
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Post by FannyMare on Nov 2, 2020 3:24:42 GMT
I don't know if he was mentioned in the roast. There wasn't anything about that in the article I saw. He said there was an interview with him (and her, it sounded like) about Winter Games and their engagement, but it didn't make it into the first episode. He said he doesn't doubt that she fell hard for Dale, but he's also sure she would have spent time with the other guys having meaningful conversations, because that's just the way she is. She's interested in people and likes to have feel conversations. I know very little about her, so I don't know what is and isn't true. I do know that, like you said Fanny, editing can create whatever story they want to sit you. Maybe them being friends, didn't fit the storyboard..lol. Oh well, it's on Thursday this week, I believe.
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Post by Critical on Nov 2, 2020 5:13:17 GMT
On pretty much any reality show, when a person cast as a villain blames editing, others usually say they can’t edit it if the person didn’t give the editors the behavior they showed. Fair point that they can leave good behavior on the cutting room floor, but the bad stuff still happened. So Claire still decided not to give any of the guys a rose on the group date (which the producers said was the final straw). She still cancelled the day portion of the group date. While she may have talked about other stuff too she still worked talking about Dale into all the conversations after the roast. From what producers have said it was those things that made them realize they needed to move on. Editing didn’t create those even if she did good stuff we didn’t see. Oh, of course she did all those things. However, omitting everything else that happened - her spending time with the other guys on the date and not just Dale, the guys roasting NOT just Dale (didn't one guy joke that he'd make like 40 jokes and ONE was about Dale?)....all the rest - makes that narrative a lot different. Her spending time with all of the guys on that date and THEN not giving any of them a rose is a lot different than the way they edited it.
I maintain they they're editing Claire this way to justify pushing her out and bringing Tayshia in....and based on the timing of when Tayshia arrived at La Quinta, it was planned long before they're saying it was.
They've edited others to be the "villain" in the past and we know that they were not hated. Look at Michelle Money, who was and is friends with many girls from her season and from the franchise in spite of being edited as the bad girl on her season. Compare her with someone like Chad whathisname. I don't think he's got any friends in the franchise and rightfully so. Some people do sort of become a bad guy and others are edited that way for the purposes of crafting the story they want to tell. I know that, after reading Courtney Robertson's book, I had a very different view of her than I did while watching her on the show.
Claire has a lot of friends and supporters in the franchise. If she was a horrid person, I doubt that would be the case....and her ex wouldn't be cheerleading for her.
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Post by Eastcoastmom on Nov 2, 2020 21:32:21 GMT
I still haven't watched my recorded episode from last week. I guess I have lost interest in Clare and her amazing journey. Not too excited about Tayshia, either.
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Post by FannyMare on Nov 2, 2020 21:49:33 GMT
I still haven't watched my recorded episode from last week. I guess I have lost interest in Clare and her amazing journey. Not too excited about Tayshia, either. I'll watch or record Thursday and decide if it's worthwhile , to keep watching. I just need some mindless entertainment right now, and this is about as mindless as it gets..
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Post by MissScarlet on Nov 2, 2020 22:05:50 GMT
On pretty much any reality show, when a person cast as a villain blames editing, others usually say they can’t edit it if the person didn’t give the editors the behavior they showed. Fair point that they can leave good behavior on the cutting room floor, but the bad stuff still happened. So Claire still decided not to give any of the guys a rose on the group date (which the producers said was the final straw). She still cancelled the day portion of the group date. While she may have talked about other stuff too she still worked talking about Dale into all the conversations after the roast. From what producers have said it was those things that made them realize they needed to move on. Editing didn’t create those even if she did good stuff we didn’t see. Oh, of course she did all those things. However, omitting everything else that happened - her spending time with the other guys on the date and not just Dale, the guys roasting NOT just Dale (didn't one guy joke that he'd make like 40 jokes and ONE was about Dale?)....all the rest - makes that narrative a lot different. Her spending time with all of the guys on that date and THEN not giving any of them a rose is a lot different than the way they edited it.
I maintain they they're editing Claire this way to justify pushing her out and bringing Tayshia in....and based on the timing of when Tayshia arrived at La Quinta, it was planned long before they're saying it was.
They've edited others to be the "villain" in the past and we know that they were not hated. Look at Michelle Money, who was and is friends with many girls from her season and from the franchise in spite of being edited as the bad girl on her season. Compare her with someone like Chad whathisname. I don't think he's got any friends in the franchise and rightfully so. Some people do sort of become a bad guy and others are edited that way for the purposes of crafting the story they want to tell. I know that, after reading Courtney Robertson's book, I had a very different view of her than I did while watching her on the show.
Claire has a lot of friends and supporters in the franchise. If she was a horrid person, I doubt that would be the case....and her ex wouldn't be cheerleading for her.
I noticed that during the episode. It jumped right out at me. That made me realize that I was correct about Clare getting a bad edit. The whole "my fiance" was another one. That was clearly clipped out of context. The editing was very choppy. I had a feeling she didn't say that about Dale. That entire episode seemed off in so many ways. I believe I said in my little recap that Clare was being edited poorly in order to justify Tayshia being brought in. I'm worried about how this week's episode will be edited. If they (the show) did nothing wrong, why try so hard to mess up her edit? Also, I've read the "official" response as to when Tayshia was brought in, but I don't buy it a bit. The timeline makes it impossible. Tayshia was there at least a week earlier than the official response says, maybe 1 1/2 to 2 weeks. I'm not going to say they planned all along to replace Clare, even before filming began, but I've always been suspicious as to why, even after the re-casting of the guys, they were all just so darned young. I wonder if there was some indication from Clare before filming that she didn't want to go through the whole process if she found someone right away. I'm just speculating there. More than anything, it upsets me that Clare is already taking flak & being trashed by viewers & on the internet. She doesn't deserve that.
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Post by acookertv on Nov 2, 2020 22:14:20 GMT
I think it's possible that there were other things at play that put Claire in the spot that she found herself in. At the time they were in pre-production and figuring out how do to the show, there were a lot of discussions about minority representation on network shows, and Disney appears to have recognized they were front and center in the discussions. When they announced their Fall line up, Black-ish was going to be a mid-season show, and the producers successfully lobbied to get the show on the Fall schedule because there was a lot for them to say. I think ABC was prompted to look at their overall schedule and see they had room for improvement, and reality shows are easier to revamp than scripted shows where they would have had to explain a total rework of characters. I've read speculation that the DWTS shake up was in response to a need for a more diverse group of faces on air. I think it's possible that at the same time, they realized the heat they got for picking Claire over Tayshia also had some merit ... so they found a reason to fix it. They certainly chose a much more diverse group of guys than they have in past seasons.
Claire still had to give them behavior that they could just to justify making a change - and she did with things like cancelling the day date and not giving out a rose on the group date. But there could very well have been a larger network agenda at play that she made possible with some of the choices she made.
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Post by FannyMare on Nov 2, 2020 22:25:43 GMT
Oh, of course she did all those things. However, omitting everything else that happened - her spending time with the other guys on the date and not just Dale, the guys roasting NOT just Dale (didn't one guy joke that he'd make like 40 jokes and ONE was about Dale?)....all the rest - makes that narrative a lot different. Her spending time with all of the guys on that date and THEN not giving any of them a rose is a lot different than the way they edited it.
I maintain they they're editing Claire this way to justify pushing her out and bringing Tayshia in....and based on the timing of when Tayshia arrived at La Quinta, it was planned long before they're saying it was.
They've edited others to be the "villain" in the past and we know that they were not hated. Look at Michelle Money, who was and is friends with many girls from her season and from the franchise in spite of being edited as the bad girl on her season. Compare her with someone like Chad whathisname. I don't think he's got any friends in the franchise and rightfully so. Some people do sort of become a bad guy and others are edited that way for the purposes of crafting the story they want to tell. I know that, after reading Courtney Robertson's book, I had a very different view of her than I did while watching her on the show.
Claire has a lot of friends and supporters in the franchise. If she was a horrid person, I doubt that would be the case....and her ex wouldn't be cheerleading for her.
I noticed that during the episode. It jumped right out at me. That made me realize that I was correct about Clare getting a bad edit. The whole "my fiance" was another one. That was clearly clipped out of context. The editing was very choppy. I had a feeling she didn't say that about Dale. That entire episode seemed off in so many ways. I believe I said in my little recap that Clare was being edited poorly in order to justify Tayshia being brought in. I'm worried about how this week's episode will be edited. If they (the show) did nothing wrong, why try so hard to mess up her edit? Also, I've read the "official" response as to when Tayshia was brought in, but I don't buy it a bit. The timeline makes it impossible. Tayshia was there at least a week earlier than the official response says, maybe 1 1/2 to 2 weeks. I'm not going to say they planned all along to replace Clare, even before filming began, but I've always been suspicious as to why, even after the re-casting of the guys, they were all just so darned young. I wonder if there was some indication from Clare before filming that she didn't want to go through the whole process if she found someone right away. I'm just speculating there. More than anything, it upsets me that Clare is already taking flak & being trashed by viewers & on the internet. She doesn't deserve that. The fiance thing was a giveaway, they spliced and diced, and missed something of importance. There was a lot on twitter about it, she should know, she has many viewers that can see right through this shows BS..
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queta
FORT Member
Posts: 48
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Post by queta on Dec 21, 2020 19:08:31 GMT
I really enjoyed every conversation I had tonight, but I particularly enjoyed having Dale's tongue down my throat and his hands all over my a** ... here is the group date rose ... Dale. Thanks for the laugh!
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