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Post by angelic_one2002 on Mar 5, 2021 14:59:46 GMT
Kate is a lovely, true royal in every sense. She's very regal and 'fits right in' with the title, royalty. I don't of course even know these two women, but sense quite a difference. I also never sensed that Kate wanted her life any differently.
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Post by acookertv on Mar 5, 2021 15:17:24 GMT
I think that both women are lovely. I love the way that Kate has found ways for her and William to keep her family as a very big part of their lives, and that her parents play important roles as grandparents to George, Charlotte and Louis, not overshadowed by future king grandpa. I like that Meghan is confident and not afraid to state what she likes, what she doesn't like, and who she is. I think that both of them are strong women. Remembering how as a child I looked up to and idolized Diana and Sarah, I'm glad that little girls today have women like Kate and Meghan to look up to.
I think the significant difference between Kate and Meghan is that Kate seems to accept the royal family for what it is, and plays the game. She will stand up for the things that really matter to her - such as her family having an active role in her kids lives. But she also goes along with the things she may disagree with but don't matter to her - or that she knows she can't change. It seems like Meghan went in thinking she could teach the royal family some things about being modern. I don't think she respects the system as much as Kate does. That may be a difference in being British vs being American. It may be a difference in something else. But i do think the two differ tremendously in the way they respect their husband's family, and I see that as the core problem.
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Post by FireWoman on Mar 5, 2021 15:23:52 GMT
The press and paparazzi following and digging ...yes...but that’s a celebrity thing not a Royal thing so...that’s not exclusive to them. It sucks but I doubt they have less paparazzi interest now so...if you don’t want paparazzi following you you go live somewhere remote and live a quiet life, you don’t move to paparazzi central LA and court media attention (media that you approve of). Twitter trolls...again, that’s a side effect of fame, not Royal-specific. There’s people who suck out there but they’re not in your day to day life so ignore. Negative news headlines about what she wears or how she sits which makes up most of this list.....who cares? There’s just as many positive headlines about her clothes and actions. Either way, it’s not important. Don’t read the newspapers. That’s all so trivial to get upset about. The article wasn't written by Harry & Meghan. This was not a list of their complaints. And I said it was lighthearted. But I would never say it is trivial. Let's grab this one as an example: When Kate wore a one-shoulder gown to an event, she was declared a “true princess” and “vision in white”. When Meghan did the same, the press branded her “vulgar”.Racism is never trivial. The only incident I can recall off the top of my head where Meghan wore a off the shoulder dress and had the term vulgar attached to the look was the dress she wore to the British Fashion Awards in like 2018. They said she 'dazzled' and her dress was 'stunning' but the vulgar comment was in reference to her choice of black nail polish, an extreme faux pas as the Queen likes neutral shades (She is a fan of Essie's Ballet Slippers... as am I lol) and all of the royals adhere to this 'rule' for the most part. I do not think that the press was calling her vulgar directly but the move was, in the eyes of the palace based on their protocol, vulgar. Nor do I feel it was a racist comment directed solely at her.
Meghan, for whatever her reasons are, likes to play by her own rules and did not have an easy time stymieing that part of her personality when she joined the royal family and it came out in many ways.. this was one example and like was mentioned she is NOT the only one to be called out for it. She may have been the only one that happened to be of mixed race to be called out in the press but it does not mean the call out was born out of racism. In fact it saddens me to see that so many want to claim that every time someone comes down on her it is equated to racism. They did it to Diana, they did it to Sarah, the still do it to Camilla, they did/do it to Sarah's daughters... the press (especially the Brit press) can be overly critical of the royals because so many are ready to abolish the monarchy in general. There have been truly racist comments about her, which I do find to be abhorrent, but again not all comments are sometimes she really does flub up (knowingly or not).
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Post by Cuddles on Mar 5, 2021 16:11:01 GMT
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Post by Cuddles on Mar 5, 2021 16:15:12 GMT
The article wasn't written by Harry & Meghan. This was not a list of their complaints. And I said it was lighthearted. But I would never say it is trivial. Let's grab this one as an example: When Kate wore a one-shoulder gown to an event, she was declared a “true princess” and “vision in white”. When Meghan did the same, the press branded her “vulgar”.Racism is never trivial. The only incident I can recall off the top of my head where Meghan wore a off the shoulder dress and had the term vulgar attached to the look was the dress she wore to the British Fashion Awards in like 2018. They said she 'dazzled' and her dress was 'stunning' but the vulgar comment was in reference to her choice of black nail polish, an extreme faux pas as the Queen likes neutral shades (She is a fan of Essie's Ballet Slippers... as am I lol) and all of the royals adhere to this 'rule' for the most part. I do not think that the press was calling her vulgar directly but the move was, in the eyes of the palace based on their protocol, vulgar. Nor do I feel it was a racist comment directed solely at her.
Meghan, for whatever her reasons are, likes to play by her own rules and did not have an easy time stymieing that part of her personality when she joined the royal family and it came out in many ways.. this was one example and like was mentioned she is NOT the only one to be called out for it. She may have been the only one that happened to be of mixed race to be called out in the press but it does not mean the call out was born out of racism. In fact it saddens me to see that so many want to claim that every time someone comes down on her it is equated to racism. They did it to Diana, they did it to Sarah, the still do it to Camilla, they did/do it to Sarah's daughters... the press (especially the Brit press) can be overly critical of the royals because so many are ready to abolish the monarchy in general. There have been truly racist comments about her, which I do find to be abhorrent, but again not all comments are sometimes she really does flub up (knowingly or not).
All I can say is we can't fix what we won't acknowledge. That's why I am so proud of our country and the direction it has recently been moving. We still have a long way to go but the more clearly we choose to see things for what they really are, the quicker it will happen. And for what it is worth, it was about the dress - here's another quote "a member of the royal family is expected to conduct herself as one and cannot be seen in a one-shoulder dress."
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Post by FannyMare on Mar 5, 2021 16:25:14 GMT
I think that both women are lovely. I love the way that Kate has found ways for her and William to keep her family as a very big part of their lives, and that her parents play important roles as grandparents to George, Charlotte and Louis, not overshadowed by future king grandpa. I like that Meghan is confident and not afraid to state what she likes, what she doesn't like, and who she is. I think that both of them are strong women. Remembering how as a child I looked up to and idolized Diana and Sarah, I'm glad that little girls today have women like Kate and Meghan to look up to. I think the significant difference between Kate and Meghan is that Kate seems to accept the royal family for what it is, and plays the game. She will stand up for the things that really matter to her - such as her family having an active role in her kids lives. But she also goes along with the things she may disagree with but don't matter to her - or that she knows she can't change. It seems like Meghan went in thinking she could teach the royal family some things about being modern. I don't think she respects the system as much as Kate does. That may be a difference in being British vs being American. It may be a difference in something else. But i do think the two differ tremendously in the way they respect their husband's family, and I see that as the core problem. www.marieclaire.com/culture/g19599018/kate-middleton-most-controversial-moments/Kate wore dark nail polish, Kate wore the wrong shoes. I still remember when Kate arrived on the scene, and she had a terrible time. She wasn't an actress who was had been in the limelight. The link I posted is very polite. I read, she was too thin, therefore she had an eating disorder, that eating disorder got worse. She showed up mothers, when she stepped out with her newborn son..My friends in the UK said there were times she could barely hold it together. I admire Kate, behind closed doors , I imagine she can be really be herself, but through the very rough times, she stayed quiet , put on that smile and carried on. William is lucky to have her( especially as much was made, that she was the wrong choice for him) When you marry into the RF, it's not a normal life, I think Kate loved William enough to take her lumps.
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Post by angelic_one2002 on Mar 5, 2021 16:54:59 GMT
Very well-said, FannyMare. As you pointed out, I'm sure Kate had her "times" too, that were not easy. Two different women, and different ways they coped or handled it.
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Post by FireWoman on Mar 5, 2021 17:04:53 GMT
The only incident I can recall off the top of my head where Meghan wore a off the shoulder dress and had the term vulgar attached to the look was the dress she wore to the British Fashion Awards in like 2018. They said she 'dazzled' and her dress was 'stunning' but the vulgar comment was in reference to her choice of black nail polish, an extreme faux pas as the Queen likes neutral shades (She is a fan of Essie's Ballet Slippers... as am I lol) and all of the royals adhere to this 'rule' for the most part. I do not think that the press was calling her vulgar directly but the move was, in the eyes of the palace based on their protocol, vulgar. Nor do I feel it was a racist comment directed solely at her.
Meghan, for whatever her reasons are, likes to play by her own rules and did not have an easy time stymieing that part of her personality when she joined the royal family and it came out in many ways.. this was one example and like was mentioned she is NOT the only one to be called out for it. She may have been the only one that happened to be of mixed race to be called out in the press but it does not mean the call out was born out of racism. In fact it saddens me to see that so many want to claim that every time someone comes down on her it is equated to racism. They did it to Diana, they did it to Sarah, the still do it to Camilla, they did/do it to Sarah's daughters... the press (especially the Brit press) can be overly critical of the royals because so many are ready to abolish the monarchy in general. There have been truly racist comments about her, which I do find to be abhorrent, but again not all comments are sometimes she really does flub up (knowingly or not).
All I can say is we can't fix what we won't acknowledge. That's why I am so proud of our country and the direction it has recently been moving. We still have a long way to go but the more clearly we choose to see things for what they really are, the quicker it will happen. And for what it is worth, it was about the dress - here's another quote "a member of the royal family is expected to conduct herself as one and cannot be seen in a one-shoulder dress." That same article that you picked to quote, also referenced the the one I did look up to make sure my info was correct where she was complimented on her dress, the nail polish not so much. But the article you quoted failed to mention that fact. The quote itself is misleading as Liz never said those exact words... it was the reporter/blogger's interpretation of the actual tame criticisms offered on the look. Liz Brewer is the one who the comment is attributed to and she praised Meghan and the look on the broadcast in fact, which the reporter did not mention. What Liz said is that Meghan is a newer member of the BRF and should go a bit slower and be more careful with early fashion choices, which is mentioned. She also mentioned that she has be warned or guided but if you'd been advised to do something (or not) that at this stage of her BRF tenure she should listen and be more respectful of the Queen. Kate has been in the family, and around them prior to marriage, for a long (longer) time and has maybe played by the rule long enough to get away with things once in a while and when appropriate. Meghan has a history of bucking the palace rules, guidelines, policies, protocols.. what ever you want to call it so I can see why she may have been more scrutinized at such an early stage. Again, this is not uncommon MANY have been in her shoes.
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Post by MissScarlet on Mar 5, 2021 18:29:57 GMT
I think that both women are lovely. I love the way that Kate has found ways for her and William to keep her family as a very big part of their lives, and that her parents play important roles as grandparents to George, Charlotte and Louis, not overshadowed by future king grandpa. I like that Meghan is confident and not afraid to state what she likes, what she doesn't like, and who she is. I think that both of them are strong women. Remembering how as a child I looked up to and idolized Diana and Sarah, I'm glad that little girls today have women like Kate and Meghan to look up to. I think the significant difference between Kate and Meghan is that Kate seems to accept the royal family for what it is, and plays the game. She will stand up for the things that really matter to her - such as her family having an active role in her kids lives. But she also goes along with the things she may disagree with but don't matter to her - or that she knows she can't change. It seems like Meghan went in thinking she could teach the royal family some things about being modern. I don't think she respects the system as much as Kate does. That may be a difference in being British vs being American. It may be a difference in something else. But i do think the two differ tremendously in the way they respect their husband's family, and I see that as the core problem. www.marieclaire.com/culture/g19599018/kate-middleton-most-controversial-moments/Kate wore dark nail polish, Kate wore the wrong shoes. I still remember when Kate arrived on the scene, and she had a terrible time. She wasn't an actress who was had been in the limelight. The link I posted is very polite. I read, she was too thin, therefore she had an eating disorder, that eating disorder got worse. She showed up mothers, when she stepped out with her newborn son..My friends in the UK said there were times she could barely hold it together. I admire Kate, behind closed doors , I imagine she can be really be herself, but through the very rough times, she stayed quiet , put on that smile and carried on. William is lucky to have her( especially as much was made, that she was the wrong choice for him) When you marry into the RF, it's not a normal life, I think Kate loved William enough to take her lumps. Kate took more than her fair share of lumps in the beginning, but once Meghan arrived on the scene the bullying and cruelty focus turned to Meghan. Kate got off the hook & became the "good" Royal Wife simply because she wasn't their current target. We all know how the bullying game works. Bullies pick a target & go at them mercilessly. Complaining only energizes them. Sticking up for the target only gives the bullies more ammunition. Seeing their target break down is like a shark seeing blood in the water. It's feeding frenzy time. Then when they pick a new target, the bullying on the original target lessens or goes away. They have a new target. So far a new target hasn't come along. They're having too much fun trying to destroy Meghan. It sucks, but that's the way the bullying game works.
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Post by FannyMare on Mar 5, 2021 18:46:20 GMT
www.marieclaire.com/culture/g19599018/kate-middleton-most-controversial-moments/Kate wore dark nail polish, Kate wore the wrong shoes. I still remember when Kate arrived on the scene, and she had a terrible time. She wasn't an actress who was had been in the limelight. The link I posted is very polite. I read, she was too thin, therefore she had an eating disorder, that eating disorder got worse. She showed up mothers, when she stepped out with her newborn son..My friends in the UK said there were times she could barely hold it together. I admire Kate, behind closed doors , I imagine she can be really be herself, but through the very rough times, she stayed quiet , put on that smile and carried on. William is lucky to have her( especially as much was made, that she was the wrong choice for him) When you marry into the RF, it's not a normal life, I think Kate loved William enough to take her lumps. Kate took more than her fair share of lumps in the beginning, but once Meghan arrived on the scene the bullying and cruelty focus turned to Meghan. Kate got off the hook & became the "good" Royal Wife simply because she wasn't their current target. We all know how the bullying game works. Bullies pick a target & go at them mercilessly. Complaining only energizes them. Sticking up for the target only gives the bullies more ammunition. Seeing their target break down is like a shark seeing blood in the water. It's feeding frenzy time. Then when they pick a new target, the bullying on the original target lessens or goes away. They have a new target. So far a new target hasn't come along. They're having too much fun trying to destroy Meghan. It sucks, but that's the way the bullying game works. Meghan moved away from all this, so why is this all coming up now. She loves the limelight, that's the bottom line. There would be no back and forth, if they went about their lives and enjoyed them. Kate didn't whine, so maybe Harry and Meghan could stop playing victim, and enjoy theirs. I can't believe after her lavish wedding, Charles stepping up to give her away, she turns on them like this. She doesnt get along with her own family, now Harry's, could she be the problem. ???? What about her previous marriage, did his family get along with her.. You believe what you want, so will I.
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Post by MissScarlet on Mar 5, 2021 18:59:27 GMT
I think the reason the British Media, and now somewhat the American Media, is still coming at her is simply that the Royals haven't given them a new target yet. That plus the fact that they are getting exactly what they want... getting a rise out of her. Another fact of bullies is that they do back down when they get ignored, as difficult as that is. Just ask Camilla.
I remember back when they had the dual targets: Diana & Fergie. The media was merciless. They ping ponged back & forth between them like a deranged tag team game. Harry remembers it too. That's what killed his Mother. He watched it all go down as a child & was unable to do anything about it. Now he sees it again with his own wife, marriage, & child. No wonder he wanted out.
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Post by Cuddles on Mar 5, 2021 19:12:49 GMT
I think the reason the British Media, and now somewhat the American Media, is still coming at her is simply that the Royals haven't given them a new target yet. That plus the fact that they are getting exactly what they want... getting a rise out of her. Another fact of bullies is that they do back down when they get ignored, as difficult as that is. Just ask Camilla. I remember back when they had the dual targets: Diana & Fergie. The media was merciless. They ping ponged back & forth between them like a deranged tag team game. Harry remembers it too. That's what killed his Mother. He watched it all go down as a child & was unable to do anything about it. Now he sees it again with his own wife, marriage, & child. No wonder he wanted out. I agree. I also believe the added race element has made it deep-seated and painful. Harry makes no ifs, ands, or buts about the mental toll being too much. This has gone way beyond any "long tradition" of "knocking down the lesser royal" or trivial criticism.
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Post by FannyMare on Mar 5, 2021 19:17:33 GMT
I think the reason the British Media, and now somewhat the American Media, is still coming at her is simply that the Royals haven't given them a new target yet. That plus the fact that they are getting exactly what they want... getting a rise out of her. Another fact of bullies is that they do back down when they get ignored, as difficult as that is. Just ask Camilla. I remember back when they had the dual targets: Diana & Fergie. The media was merciless. They ping ponged back & forth between them like a deranged tag team game. Harry remembers it too. That's what killed his Mother. He watched it all go down as a child & was unable to do anything about it. Now he sees it again with his own wife, marriage, & child. No wonder he wanted out. I don't think he wanted out until he married Meghan, again, you can believe that or not. They wouldn't be in the media if they didn't put themselves in there. I certainly don't blame the RF for standing up for themselves. The media or rags, aren't the people who stood for hours to watch Harry and Meghan drive by, as I did princess Margaret. His mother got in a limo with a drunk driver, she didn't have a seat belt on, that's what killed her. Harry loved his mother, but to keep bringing her up, is too much. She doesn't belong in his whining.
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Post by dagwood on Mar 5, 2021 20:26:51 GMT
True, but they don't have to be read at the same time they are sent. It's not like she was calling them. How do we know that. I don't know it. If an angry email came from my employer, I'd probably read it. I get that but my point was you are not constantly monitoring your emails. If it is off you aren't going to know it's there. I'm not defending her, by any means. I wasn't there, I don't know what went on, I just hope it is all sour grapes. And I feel bad for Harry who is caught in the middle of it all.
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Post by FannyMare on Mar 5, 2021 20:37:20 GMT
How do we know that. I don't know it. If an angry email came from my employer, I'd probably read it. I get that but my point was you are not constantly monitoring your emails. If it is off you aren't going to know it's there. I'm not defending her, by any means. I wasn't there, I don't know what went on, I just hope it is all sour grapes. And I feel bad for Harry who is caught in the middle of it all. If they turn their phones off, they wouldn't hear, I get that. But obviously someone did hear them, to know what time they arrived. Anyway , it's she said, they said,( shrug). Harry can't go back now, so let's hope he stays busy, maybe gets a job he enjoys, and enjoy that private life they wanted so badly..
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Post by acookertv on Mar 5, 2021 21:06:50 GMT
I think the reason the British Media, and now somewhat the American Media, is still coming at her is simply that the Royals haven't given them a new target yet. That plus the fact that they are getting exactly what they want... getting a rise out of her. Another fact of bullies is that they do back down when they get ignored, as difficult as that is. Just ask Camilla. I remember back when they had the dual targets: Diana & Fergie. The media was merciless. They ping ponged back & forth between them like a deranged tag team game. Harry remembers it too. That's what killed his Mother. He watched it all go down as a child & was unable to do anything about it. Now he sees it again with his own wife, marriage, & child. No wonder he wanted out. Hold on though - this is not a case where the British media has relentlessly been attacking a private citizen who is just laying low. First, Meghan and Harry batted the hornets nest by suing them. There are some amazing and peaceful people who when knocked in the head will ignore it and move on. But that's not most people, and it's certainly not the British tabloid press. They are not that tacky. The reason that most people in the public eye don't bother suing for everything they can is that they don't want to face the blowback. Then, once they got through all of that, they totally break with royal tradition and sit down for an interview with Oprah that they publicize by hinting that they are going to tell out. The stories about bullying and the earrings didn't come out until those things were done. If they want to speak out, fine - that's their prerogative. But there are consequences to the actions they take, and they are experiencing them. They have some simple choices - they can live a quiet, peaceful and private life out of the spot light where in time people will forget about them and not talk about them OR they can seek a public life, speak their minds and live as they wish seeking attention ... and accept the blowback that comes with such a life. This fantasy land that they are living in where they will have fame fortune, attention and accolades and get no criticism at all does not exist. It never has for any human. Ever.
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Post by Kao on Mar 6, 2021 5:18:11 GMT
Kate is a lovely, true royal in every sense. She's very regal and 'fits right in' with the title, royalty. I don't of course even know these two women, but sense quite a difference. I also never sensed that Kate wanted her life any differently. She "fits right in" because her family is upper class and is British and she drank the koolaid and knew a lot about the world that she would be in with William. I can think of a couple of other reasons but I'm sure you didn't mean it that way and I'm not going to go there.
I think both women are lovely, but the main difference here is that all of her life Kate wanted to be "Princess Kate." Her nickname in the British Press was "Waity Katie" for a very valid reason; she waited on William for years (even when he was dating someone else and got back together with her) since college. She wanted her Prince and everything that went with him and her family did as well; I don't want to say they were social climbing as I believe Kate genuinely loves William but she is basically just happy with being the future Queen and having her little family and really doesn't seek anything in life other than that. I don't fault her for that because many women in her social class aspire to the same thing--you get a "play" job while you're waiting for your man to propose, and then afterwards you do the social events and raise your family.
Meghan on the other hand wanted to marry Harry, not his title, and thought that she and Harry could do good things like continue their charity work, work on different campaigns, etc that for whatever reason the BRF weren't into them doing. Harry and Meghan are similar in a lot of ways; they are both independent minded and prefer to do their own thing. And unlike Kate Meghan had the extreme displeasure of having the same people who were supposed to be guiding her (aides, etc) selling her out to the same press that was foaming at the mouth to villify her, which created an atmosphere of mistrust. I think that Diana's life and death affected both boys in different ways and in the case of Harry he's seen what the firm and the British press did to his mom and he didn't want the same life for his wife and child. Personally, I think he was done with the Firm a long time ago; Meghan was just the linchpin.
They are both lovely ladies with two different goals in life, which is fine. And unlike what the British press might say I think it was less a "family" issue and more of a dealing with disloyal people from the inside and the never ending onslaught of B.S. from the British press that made them leave.
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Post by acookertv on Mar 6, 2021 12:53:11 GMT
Kate is a lovely, true royal in every sense. She's very regal and 'fits right in' with the title, royalty. I don't of course even know these two women, but sense quite a difference. I also never sensed that Kate wanted her life any differently. She "fits right in" because her family is upper class and is British and she drank the koolaid and knew a lot about the world that she would be in with William. I can think of a couple of other reasons but I'm sure you didn't mean it that way and I'm not going to go there.
I think both women are lovely, but the main difference here is that all of her life Kate wanted to be "Princess Kate." Her nickname in the British Press was "Waity Katie" for a very valid reason; she waited on William for years (even when he was dating someone else and got back together with her) since college. She wanted her Prince and everything that went with him and her family did as well; I don't want to say they were social climbing as I believe Kate genuinely loves William but she is basically just happy with being the future Queen and having her little family and really doesn't seek anything in life other than that. I don't fault her for that because many women in her social class aspire to the same thing--you get a "play" job while you're waiting for your man to propose, and then afterwards you do the social events and raise your family.
Meghan on the other hand wanted to marry Harry, not his title, and thought that she and Harry could do good things like continue their charity work, work on different campaigns, etc that for whatever reason the BRF weren't into them doing. Harry and Meghan are similar in a lot of ways; they are both independent minded and prefer to do their own thing. And unlike Kate Meghan had the extreme displeasure of having the same people who were supposed to be guiding her (aides, etc) selling her out to the same press that was foaming at the mouth to villify her, which created an atmosphere of mistrust. I think that Diana's life and death affected both boys in different ways and in the case of Harry he's seen what the firm and the British press did to his mom and he didn't want the same life for his wife and child. Personally, I think he was done with the Firm a long time ago; Meghan was just the linchpin.
They are both lovely ladies with two different goals in life, which is fine. And unlike what the British press might say I think it was less a "family" issue and more of a dealing with disloyal people from the inside and the never ending onslaught of B.S. from the British press that made them leave.
I think you are spot on with your assessment. You’ve got two women who married into a family business. One said “put me to work. This business has worked well for a long time, tell me what you want me to do” and the other said “there are better ways to do this, here are my ideas”. But the family business never sought out consultants to help them change. They were happy with things operating as they are. This is also why I take issue with Harry and Meghan pretending they are still living a life of service - as if they are still royal, just doing it in America (opening a new branch of the family business if you will). A life of service requires a lot of compliance and sacrifice. You don’t see someone join the military and explain that in the barracks they just don’t make their bed because they do it a different way ... or they don’t do the 3 mile run with the rest of their platoon because they prefer the elliptical. You don’t see a nun join a convent but say she’s going to get married, have a family and live off sight because she just prefers it that way. A life of service requires sacrifice and compliance. Harry and Meghan have decided that’s not for them, and that’s fine. But let’s call it what it is - they want to be famous philanthropists who do things their way - and because they have solid sources of wealth they can. If they were honest about that and dropped the titles I’d be fine with it. But the way they are doing it - I see them as the soldier who refuses to make his bed.
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Post by Cuddles on Mar 6, 2021 14:59:14 GMT
All I can say is we can't fix what we won't acknowledge. That's why I am so proud of our country and the direction it has recently been moving. We still have a long way to go but the more clearly we choose to see things for what they really are, the quicker it will happen. And for what it is worth, it was about the dress - here's another quote "a member of the royal family is expected to conduct herself as one and cannot be seen in a one-shoulder dress." That same article that you picked to quote, also referenced the the one I did look up to make sure my info was correct where she was complimented on her dress, the nail polish not so much. But the article you quoted failed to mention that fact. The quote itself is misleading as Liz never said those exact words... it was the reporter/blogger's interpretation of the actual tame criticisms offered on the look. Liz Brewer is the one who the comment is attributed to and she praised Meghan and the look on the broadcast in fact, which the reporter did not mention. What Liz said is that Meghan is a newer member of the BRF and should go a bit slower and be more careful with early fashion choices, which is mentioned. She also mentioned that she has be warned or guided but if you'd been advised to do something (or not) that at this stage of her BRF tenure she should listen and be more respectful of the Queen. Kate has been in the family, and around them prior to marriage, for a long (longer) time and has maybe played by the rule long enough to get away with things once in a while and when appropriate. Meghan has a history of bucking the palace rules, guidelines, policies, protocols.. what ever you want to call it so I can see why she may have been more scrutinized at such an early stage. Again, this is not uncommon MANY have been in her shoes. I'm truly sorry but you've lost me; I'm not sure I'm following which article is which and/or which quote came from what article. All I can say at this point is that my main purpose was to just link in a lighthearted but thought-provoking overview of some of what Meghan has been subjected to. And I get the angle of those who think she's not the only one who has been trampled on so she should've just sucked it up, but for me, clearly... clearly... what Meghan experienced was worse and there was no other choice for them than to leave. Earlier you said, "In fact it saddens me to see that so many want to claim that every time someone comes down on her it is equated to racism." I'm not sure who "so many" are or if you think I am one of the "so many" but let me just say we can be sad together. And let me explain why. I do NOT think that every one who has come down on Meghan has had ill intention. Take her wedding dress for example and Katy Perry's comment. Katy Perry was not being racist, at all. Critical thought her dress fit to perfection, while others here didn't like it one bit. All a matter of opinion and taste, nothing ill-willed whatsoever. But when a white girl can do something that a black girl cannot without excoriation that requires more conversation. A post upthread from yesterday got me thinking... THIS! THIS! This is why it is so imperative for children to have Barbie dolls and American Girl dolls, all brands of dolls, in different colors so we can finally move away from such perceptions! So yeah, I, too, am feeling sad.
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Post by acookertv on Mar 6, 2021 15:51:35 GMT
But how can it be so clear that Meghan has been subjected to worse when we’re talking about a family trained to not talk about or let on to their hardships? Of course it seems she has it worse - she’s the one who openly complains about it. There’s a rule in management that the person who talks the most about being busy is not actually the busiest - the people who are busiest don’t have tome to talk about it. There could be some form of that in okay here.
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Post by FireWoman on Mar 6, 2021 20:48:46 GMT
That same article that you picked to quote, also referenced the the one I did look up to make sure my info was correct where she was complimented on her dress, the nail polish not so much. But the article you quoted failed to mention that fact. The quote itself is misleading as Liz never said those exact words... it was the reporter/blogger's interpretation of the actual tame criticisms offered on the look. Liz Brewer is the one who the comment is attributed to and she praised Meghan and the look on the broadcast in fact, which the reporter did not mention. What Liz said is that Meghan is a newer member of the BRF and should go a bit slower and be more careful with early fashion choices, which is mentioned. She also mentioned that she has be warned or guided but if you'd been advised to do something (or not) that at this stage of her BRF tenure she should listen and be more respectful of the Queen. Kate has been in the family, and around them prior to marriage, for a long (longer) time and has maybe played by the rule long enough to get away with things once in a while and when appropriate. Meghan has a history of bucking the palace rules, guidelines, policies, protocols.. what ever you want to call it so I can see why she may have been more scrutinized at such an early stage. Again, this is not uncommon MANY have been in her shoes. I'm truly sorry but you've lost me; I'm not sure I'm following which article is which and/or which quote came from what article. All I can say at this point is that my main purpose was to just link in a lighthearted but thought-provoking overview of some of what Meghan has been subjected to. And I get the angle of those who think she's not the only one who has been trampled on so she should've just sucked it up, but for me, clearly... clearly... what Meghan experienced was worse and there was no other choice for them than to leave. Earlier you said, "In fact it saddens me to see that so many want to claim that every time someone comes down on her it is equated to racism." I'm not sure who "so many" are or if you think I am one of the "so many" but let me just say we can be sad together. And let me explain why. I do NOT think that every one who has come down on Meghan has had ill intention. Take her wedding dress for example and Katy Perry's comment. Katy Perry was not being racist, at all. Critical thought her dress fit to perfection, while others here didn't like it one bit. All a matter of opinion and taste, nothing ill-willed whatsoever. But when a white girl can do something that a black girl cannot without excoriation that requires more conversation. A post upthread from yesterday got me thinking... THIS! THIS! This is why it is so imperative for children to have Barbie dolls and American Girl dolls, all brands of dolls, in different colors so we can finally move away from such perceptions! So yeah, I, too, am feeling sad. I am sorry, there are a lot of links to stories and quotes floating around here..
What I was talking about is that you mentioned/quoted: "And for what it is worth, it was about the dress - here's another quote "a member of the royal family is expected to conduct herself as one and cannot be seen in a one-shoulder dress."" That was not what someone said about Meghan, it was what the writer of the article you quoted THOUGHT was said, it was HER OPINION not fact. The person that wrote the article inferred that is what Liz Brewer meant. No one actually SAID that about Meghan. This was absolutely not about something that a 'White' girl can do and something a 'Black' girl cannot. That is what struck me about the whole Stylist article you pulled from was a collection of cherry picked thoughts, half quotes, and ideas from an televised interview that the writer assembled to push her own objective. So no, the vulgar comment was never about her dress or even over all look, which was praised in several places not the least of which was the interview that the writer addressed. It was about Meghan going against royal protocol in the case of her nail polish. Lame as that is, to be honest I myself would have a hard time sticking to this one, lol, I love my dark colours but am a big fan of the lighter ones too.
As someone is all about racial and social justice (it is one of my college majors in fact) I hate to see anyone saying something is about race, when it is not, it (to me) lessens the whole spirit of the movement. I am not specifically saying you when I said 'so many' or 'anyone' it is a general statement about what does make me sad. There are true racial injustices and inequalities out there that need to be addressed, fought, and reformed and I do strongly feel that there were (or still are) things said about Meghan simply based on her race which are awful and have no place.
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Post by MissGriss on Mar 7, 2021 3:59:37 GMT
acookertv , I can see how your examples of soldiers, nuns, and others who have signed up for a regimented life of service can be equated with a life of "royal service." But there are many people who live lives of service that don't involve those types of restrictions (which is the point that I think Harry and Meghan were making in their response to the statement from Buckingham Palace). I don't see either approach as more or less desirable or noble than the other. They are just different ways of doing things. Time will tell whether or not Harry and Meghan devote a large part of their lives to serving others or if they are just people who sometimes do good things (which is OK, too, but not the same as making it their life work). As for "royal service," my personal opinion is that while some of it involves activities that actually help others, a fair amount of it is just making appearances at events that keep them in the public eye and bring positive press--things that may or may not make much difference in the lives of the people they are "serving" (other than the thrill of meeting a royal, which may be a big deal for many, so it's not nothing, I suppose).
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Post by acookertv on Mar 7, 2021 12:49:17 GMT
acookertv , I can see how your examples of soldiers, nuns, and others who have signed up for a regimented life of service can be equated with a life of "royal service." But there are many people who live lives of service that don't involve those types of restrictions (which is the point that I think Harry and Meghan were making in their response to the statement from Buckingham Palace). I don't see either approach as more or less desirable or noble than the other. They are just different ways of doing things. Time will tell whether or not Harry and Meghan devote a large part of their lives to serving others or if they are just people who sometimes do good things (which is OK, too, but not the same as making it their life work). As for "royal service," my personal opinion is that while some of it involves activities that actually help others, a fair amount of it is just making appearances at events that keep them in the public eye and bring positive press--things that may or may not make much difference in the lives of the people they are "serving" (other than the thrill of meeting a royal, which may be a big deal for many, so it's not nothing, I suppose). I make a distinction between “a life of service” and “serving others”. That’s the point. A life of service requires the regimented life and sacrifice and it’s precisely what Harry and Meghan escaped.
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Post by MissGriss on Mar 7, 2021 15:55:34 GMT
I make a distinction between “a life of service” and “serving others”. That’s the point. A life of service requires the regimented life and sacrifice and it’s precisely what Harry and Meghan escaped. That's where we differ. I believe it's possible to devote oneself to a life of service without being part of some regimented group or official form of discipline. For me, it's about the level/extent of devotion (as well as actual service rendered) not the format.
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Post by acookertv on Mar 7, 2021 16:48:15 GMT
I make a distinction between “a life of service” and “serving others”. That’s the point. A life of service requires the regimented life and sacrifice and it’s precisely what Harry and Meghan escaped. That's where we differ. I believe it's possible to devote oneself to a life of service without being part of some regimented group or official form of discipline. For me, it's about the level/extent of devotion (as well as actual service rendered) not the format. What in your mind are some examples?
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Post by Cuddles on Mar 8, 2021 0:32:21 GMT
I'm truly sorry but you've lost me; I'm not sure I'm following which article is which and/or which quote came from what article. All I can say at this point is that my main purpose was to just link in a lighthearted but thought-provoking overview of some of what Meghan has been subjected to. And I get the angle of those who think she's not the only one who has been trampled on so she should've just sucked it up, but for me, clearly... clearly... what Meghan experienced was worse and there was no other choice for them than to leave. Earlier you said, "In fact it saddens me to see that so many want to claim that every time someone comes down on her it is equated to racism." I'm not sure who "so many" are or if you think I am one of the "so many" but let me just say we can be sad together. And let me explain why. I do NOT think that every one who has come down on Meghan has had ill intention. Take her wedding dress for example and Katy Perry's comment. Katy Perry was not being racist, at all. Critical thought her dress fit to perfection, while others here didn't like it one bit. All a matter of opinion and taste, nothing ill-willed whatsoever. But when a white girl can do something that a black girl cannot without excoriation that requires more conversation. A post upthread from yesterday got me thinking... THIS! THIS! This is why it is so imperative for children to have Barbie dolls and American Girl dolls, all brands of dolls, in different colors so we can finally move away from such perceptions! So yeah, I, too, am feeling sad. I am sorry, there are a lot of links to stories and quotes floating around here..
What I was talking about is that you mentioned/quoted: "And for what it is worth, it was about the dress - here's another quote "a member of the royal family is expected to conduct herself as one and cannot be seen in a one-shoulder dress."" That was not what someone said about Meghan, it was what the writer of the article you quoted THOUGHT was said, it was HER OPINION not fact. The person that wrote the article inferred that is what Liz Brewer meant. No one actually SAID that about Meghan. This was absolutely not about something that a 'White' girl can do and something a 'Black' girl cannot. That is what struck me about the whole Stylist article you pulled from was a collection of cherry picked thoughts, half quotes, and ideas from an televised interview that the writer assembled to push her own objective. So no, the vulgar comment was never about her dress or even over all look, which was praised in several places not the least of which was the interview that the writer addressed. It was about Meghan going against royal protocol in the case of her nail polish. Lame as that is, to be honest I myself would have a hard time sticking to this one, lol, I love my dark colours but am a big fan of the lighter ones too.
As someone is all about racial and social justice (it is one of my college majors in fact) I hate to see anyone saying something is about race, when it is not, it (to me) lessens the whole spirit of the movement. I am not specifically saying you when I said 'so many' or 'anyone' it is a general statement about what does make me sad. There are true racial injustices and inequalities out there that need to be addressed, fought, and reformed and I do strongly feel that there were (or still are) things said about Meghan simply based on her race which are awful and have no place.
Okay, so you are correct, I shouldn't have put "When a white girl can do something that a black girl can't without excoriation... after the one-shoulder dress topic because that just further confused things. I wasn't meaning to tie the two together but I totally see how it looked as if I was. As I mentioned earlier, the article that came out of is one that I called lighthearted. That's not to say that I find all of the things that are in the lighthearted article appropriate or easily forgivable, or that I agree that there is no racism whatsoever involved, because I personally hear plenty of undercurrent. And I take Harry at his word. I look forward to hearing what they have to say about this, and all the rest, tonight.
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Post by MissGriss on Mar 8, 2021 2:16:49 GMT
That's where we differ. I believe it's possible to devote oneself to a life of service without being part of some regimented group or official form of discipline. For me, it's about the level/extent of devotion (as well as actual service rendered) not the format. What in your mind are some examples? To start with, I think we are using two different definitions of the word service. You seem to be defining "a life of service" as having service as an occupation, while I am defining "a life of service" as living a life that is oriented toward serving. Both are valid definitions, but they are very different. Given that, I'm guessing that my examples won't fit your definition. One example that comes to mind is a friend who spends all of her time outside of work crocheting hats and gloves for homeless people and putting together what she calls Blessing Bags containing the hats, gloves, toiletries, energy bars, etc. to give to people she sees on the street. But she doesn't just give them to people she comes across. She goes out actively looking for people who might need help. To me, that is living a life of service.
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Post by acookertv on Mar 8, 2021 3:09:07 GMT
What in your mind are some examples? To start with, I think we are using two different definitions of the word service. You seem to be defining "a life of service" as having service as an occupation, while I am defining "a life of service" as living a life that is oriented toward serving. Both are valid definitions, but they are very different. Given that, I'm guessing that my examples won't fit your definition. One example that comes to mind is a friend who spends all of her time outside of work crocheting hats and gloves for homeless people and putting together what she calls Blessing Bags containing the hats, gloves, toiletries, energy bars, etc. to give to people she sees on the street. But she doesn't just give them to people she comes across. She goes out actively looking for people who might need help. To me, that is living a life of service. Yes, that’s what I’d call service. I’d add to that working in jobs like teaching, nursing, setting aside a set number of hours each month to volunteer. That’s service, and that’s what Harry and Meghan will be doing now. But that’s something very different from a life of service. As I said, there’s a distinction between the two. Anyway, having watched the interview, my basic conclusion is that a few good linked in seminars could have save Harry and Meghan from a lot of hurt. Meghan clearly decided to accept a job without asking for a job description, researching the company, or considering whether or not she wanted the job. She just loved a guy who worked there and decided to quit her job, move, and start this new job. Lesson learned - research a job before accepting the offer. Harry got mad that a guy he’d always worked with got promoted, and that the people in the promoted guys dept would get some cool perks. He ignored that the other guys department had to do a lot of extra work and put in extra hours, and that’s why they got the perks. And Meghan, the newest employee, understood the perks even less. Lesson learned - not every job is the same, promotions can bring on new demands. Don’t judge your perks by other peoples work. Then Harry and Meghan decided to go part time, but were told the company didn’t offer part time. So they decided to quit, announced they’d quit, but never formally resigned to management. After quitting, they were shocked to discover that you only get perks and benefits when you work for a company. Lesson learned - be sure to identify the compensation you receive from your job and understand it will only continue after leaving if you carefully negotiate a severance package. In order to be in the best position for negotiation, be sure to communicate your intent to resign professionally and only to your manager. Allow the manager to handle communication for the company. poor Harry and Meghan ... linked in could have been their friend!
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Post by AZChristian on Mar 8, 2021 13:36:35 GMT
Wow, acookertv . . . you wrote what I thought after watching the interview. If you refer to "The Firm" you are seeing your lifestyle as a job. And when you quit the job, you lose your benefits (like security). They both made comments about them being known and watched by "the whole world." Um, yeah . . . like they didn't know that before they started seeing each other? I doubt the interview changed anyone's minds about Harry and/or Meghan. Watching them over the past couple of years already did that for a lot of us. Pretty dress, but not worth almost $5,000.
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Post by acookertv on Mar 8, 2021 14:40:53 GMT
I get the feeling that William and Harry compete with each other to a degree over "owning" Diana's legacy, and their wives get pulled in courting the comparisons. I think it's sad that they seem to be attaching themselves to her struggles instead of her triumphs.
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